Lusk Letter sent to George Lusk of the vigilante committee

[Cogidubnus]

Hi,possible but not very likely you've got to admit for someone like lusk to receive a communication like this and not go straight to the police with it is strange also he would be withholding evidence .

Hi Jason

The police force had only been in existence fifty years and had been, to some extent, foist on the public, (replacing the former watchmen), very much against their wishes - many ordinary folk were still wary of being supervised by what they saw as a uniformed military force acting on behalf of the ruling classes.

I think, as far as Autumn 1888 is concerned, you might be severely underestimating the amount of deep suspicion between parts of the community and the police - this, as well as being to a certain extent inbred to a somewhat insular population, had been exacerbated by the Trafalgar Square events, and a fairly determined press campaign.

Under the circumstances I can quite see why a man like Lusk, who was leading a vigilante group set up almost in opposition to the police, should initially balk at the prospect of going to them, and why he sought the advice of said group before doing so...

All the best

Dave

[pinkmoon]

Hi Jason

The police force had only been in existence fifty years and had been, to some extent, foist on the public, (replacing the former watchmen), very much against their wishes - many ordinary folk were still wary of being supervised by what they saw as a uniformed military force acting on behalf of the ruling classes.

I think, as far as Autumn 1888 is concerned, you might be severely underestimating the amount of deep suspicion between parts of the community and the police - this, as well as being to a certain extent inbred to a somewhat insular population, had been exacerbated by the Trafalgar Square events, and a fairly determined press campaign.

Under the circumstances I can quite see why a man like Lusk, who was leading a vigilante group set up almost in opposition to the police, should initially balk at the prospect of going to them, and why he sought the advice of said group before doing so...

All the best

Dave

Hi Dave,why didn't he throw it away it must have smelt pretty bad.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Jason

why didn't he throw it away it must have smelt pretty bad.

I suspect he might've been tempted. The press reports suggest that initially on receiving the parcel (16th) he attached no importance to it, presumably feeling it was a hoax...but clearly it was bugging him a little and he consulted his cronies on the 18th...In fact didn't I read somewhere one member of the Vigilance Committee urged him to throw it away, or am I imagining that?

In any event the rest of the committee urged him to seek medical advice, and presumably the medics in turn (Openshaw?) persuaded him to toddle along to Leman Street...

Wonder how well it was actually preserved. According to the Sunday Times of 21st October it was described as having been immersed in spirit which had "exercised a hardening process" but ..."it exhibits no trace of decomposition". So perhaps it didn't onk that badly after all...

All the best

Dave

[pinkmoon]

Hi Jason



I suspect he might've been tempted. The press reports suggest that initially on receiving the parcel (16th) he attached no importance to it, presumably feeling it was a hoax...but clearly it was bugging him a little and he consulted his cronies on the 18th...In fact didn't I read somewhere one member of the Vigilance Committee urge him to throw it away, or am I imagining that?

In any event the rest of the committee urged him to seek medical advice, and presumably the medics in turn (Openshaw?) pressured him to toddle along to Leman Street...

Wonder how well it was actually preserved. According to the Sunday Times of 21st October it was described as having been immersed in spirit which had "exercised a hardening process" but ..."it exhibits no trace of decomposition". So perhaps it didn't onk that badly after all...

All the best

Dave

Hi Dave ,the more I think about this the stranger it seems I know relations between the locals and the police might not have been fantastic but it just seems a long time to wait. To have a letter from our killer and not do anything with it but wait two days very odd indeed.

[curious4]

Tumbelty

Were it not for the 10 year age discrepancy I'd say (Irish-born?) Francis Tumblety.

Hello Bridewell,

But not sporting a giant, eye-catching moustache?

Best wishes,
C4

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Jason

The thing is, we don't know how many of these alleged communications from the killer (crank letters) were floating around...Stewart and Keith's excellent book sheds light on surviving copies, but how many didn't reach the police, were simply ditched, or burned, or have since fallen victim to the years?

What if "Letters from Hell" is only the tip of the iceberg?

I suspect folk, then as now, would be sceptical about alleged letters from the killer? What if Mr Lusk as head of the vigilance committee had already had half a dozen crank letters in a similar vein (albeit without kidneys enclosed) and destroyed them?

The Penny Post had been around nearly fifty years now, and the concept of dashing off a letter and posting it cheaply was now firmly established among the literate...and many of the poorer classes were now at least semi-literate...mass postage (once the preserve of the moneyed classes) was well and truly established...how many hoax letters do you think were posted between late 1888 and say late 1889?

Let me give you a present-day example. A few years back we started receiving some very odd letters alleging nazi activities based around a taxi firm just down the road from us...the taxis with stars on were spy cabs or something like - the first half dozen or so we simply laughed at and threw away, and it was only when our kids started featuring in increasing ways, we kept them and went to the police...turned out eventually a guy we barely knew, down the road had lost his mother, consequently stopped his medication and started off in a world of fantasy...poor bugger...he was never a threat, never going to be a threat, but when he triggered a particular alarm he alarmed us...

What if?

All the best

Dave

[pinkmoon]

Hi Jason

The thing is, we don't know how many of these alleged communications from the killer (crank letters) were floating around...Stewart and Keith's excellent book sheds light on surviving copies, but how many didn't reach the police, were simply ditched, or burned, or have since fallen victim to the years?

What if "Letters from Hell" is only the tip of the iceberg?

I suspect folk, then as now, would be sceptical about alleged letters from the killer? What if Mr Lusk as head of the vigilance committee had already had half a dozen crank letters in a similar vein (albeit without kidneys enclosed) and destroyed them?

The Penny Post had been around nearly fifty years now, and the concept of dashing off a letter and posting it cheaply was now firmly established among the literate...and many of the poorer classes were now at least semi-literate...mass postage (once the preserve of the moneyed classes) was well and truly established...how many hoax letters do you think were posted between late 1888 and say late 1889?

Let me give you a present-day example. A few years back we started receiving some very odd letters alleging nazi activities based around a taxi firm just down the road from us...the taxis with stars on were spy cabs or something like - the first half dozen or so we simply laughed at and threw away, and it was only when our kids started featuring in increasing ways, we kept them and went to the police...turned out eventually a guy we barely knew, down the road had lost his mother, consequently stopped his medication and started off in a world of fantasy...poor bugger...he was never a threat, never going to be a threat, but when he triggered a particular alarm he alarmed us...

What if?

All the best

Dave

Thanks Dave,I think what if? sums up the whole ripper case.

[Cogidubnus]

Hello Jason

Yes - quite right - there are so many relatively commonplace things we no longer know - not to mention the more outstanding historic things we don't know, and now never will.

Addititionally we now so often judge everyday matters from a 21st century perspective whilst I bet 19th century views on even the most basic matters were totally different.

This really struck home to me during a (nearly) four day power cut over Christmas - how much family income could be affected by not being able to see before 9.30 am or after 3.30pm, how bloody cold life was without heating...how things couldn't be cooked or heated (except in our case, unhealthily on the hob - no oven foods)...how disastrous it was when you got wet without any means to dry your clothes, how you couldn't bath or shower, how you could only wash or shave by perilously carrying a large saucepan of boiling water round the house etc etc. Add to that a lack of toilet facilities (which fortunately we didn't suffer) and where are you?

There is SO much we really don't know and perhaps can't even envisage...and it's unlikely we can EVER fully visualise that sort of life again...and in most ways that's a bloody good thing after all!

All the best

Dave

[pinkmoon]

My father was born in the east end fifty years after the murders by then living conditions we greatly improved however my dear father still reckons things were quite grim .My father reckons what saved him from a premature death was ww 2 he reckons the Luftwaffe bombing the east end and been evacuated out to the country saved him .

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Jason

My ma was born late 1920s in the St George in the East Workhouse - in growing up there were the parents and up to ten kids at any given time in two rooms in Wapping (initially)...during the earlier years there were actually two families sharing this space but the number of kids was lower in total.

And they were apparently accused by some of their mates of living in somewhat luxurious surroundings...

My mum's direct family moved out in 1946...but I visited (with my mum) my other relatives in the area, as late as 1968...In hindsight jeez I'd have hated their life, but I suppose things were what they were...my great aunt Vi always insisted that the Luftwaffe didn't do half as much damage as the GLC...and that the old properties stood up better to both bombs and bulldozers than the new ones...what a life eh?

All the best

Dave

[Brenda]

.

One thing I always found interesting is that Joseph Barnett was a member of the vigilante committee. I can't remember the source for that, I'm looking through some books.

[Tom_Wescott]

One thing I always found interesting is that Joseph Barnett was a member of the vigilante committee. I can't remember the source for that, I'm looking through some books.

Hi Brenda. I don't believe that's true.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Brenda]

.

I'm thinking you are right, Tom, I can't seem to find a source for that. Have you ever heard that, though?

[Tom_Wescott]

I'm thinking you are right, Tom, I can't seem to find a source for that. Have you ever heard that, though?

No, not until your post.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Bridewell]

Hi Dave,why didn't he throw it away it must have smelt pretty bad.

As per your own post earlier - he would have been withholding evidence.