Lusk Letter sent to George Lusk of the vigilante committee

[Sam Flynn]

Dear AP,

This is starting to resemble your dogged "Truncheon-holder" crusade from a year or so ago, and I know you'll just keep on peeling the layers from this particular onion, so I'll leave it there.

I have drawn my conclusions based on sound reasoning and see no reason whatsoever to depart from them. Others are free to look for tenuous loopholes if they wish.

[Cap'n Jack]

Sam, I'm going to chance my arm here, just because I'm good at it.
What if Openshaw tested the kidney for 'Kiestein' and was rewarded with a postive value?
He would have known then that the kidney was indisputably of female origin.

This might be old science, but it was a method the medics were using as early as the 1830's; similarly the medics of the age were aware of the fact that a peculiar 'blanching' would be present in the kidney of a person who was a heavy drinker.
What interests me here in particular, is the dramatic effect that mercury or quicksilver can have on the kidneys, increasing and compounding the effects of heavy drinking; and in this regard I think of the criminal case I found where workmen at the Kearley and Tonge warehouse in Mitre Square were stealing quicksilver to sell to the prostitutes of the area.
Could Eddowes have been in Mitre Square for a quicksilver fix?
Could Eddowes have had syphillis at this point in her life?
And could Eddowes have been in the early stages of pregnancy?
And could Openshaw have been absolutely right?

[joelhall]

One wonders Sam if Openshaw was correctly quoted in his original assessment. If so, and he backpeddled when asked to stand by it, then we would have some cause to think he did recognize certain distinctive qualities that indicated female, showing signs of Brights Disease, and of an approximate age. I think the Nephritis in sample and victim's remaining kidney, though not damning, makes for some interesting work on the part of a hoaxer. Im wondering if it was worth all the fuss to them, if so.

And to not even use "The Ripper" in the note...its impact is diminished by that element lacking really. If it was signed Yours Truly, Jack the Ripper, my bet is it would be the #1 choice for authentic correspondence.

Best regards.

surely though ginny womens kidneys in this area would be common in the morgue.

secondly i find it doubtful the killer would actually use his given nick name. very few killers appreciate this, so id give more credance to it NOT containing jack the ripper.

[Dan Norder]

I think the Nephritis in sample and victim's remaining kidney

Sam's already taken you to task for insisting that the doctors said the kidney was female, and I'll do the same for your insistence that the doctors said it had nephritis. The only documented instances of this claim having been made were by highly unreliable sources who got a number of other things wrong. There's no reason to believe it.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Mike,

What we must bear in mind is that much of what we think was Openshaw's verdict has been passed down to us via a press "exclusive" and Major Smith's distinctly dodgy memoirs ("I did this...", "I saw that..."). As I've been at pains to point out, there ARE no distincty female qualities inherent in the human kidney, except if one were to examine its sex chromosomes - the discovery of which wasn't to happen until the 20th century.

One wonders Sam if Openshaw was correctly quoted in his original assessment. If so, and he backpeddled when asked to stand by it, then we would have some cause to think he did recognize certain distinctive qualities that indicated female, showing signs of Brights Disease, and of an approximate age. I think the Nephritis in sample and victim's remaining kidney, though not damning, makes for some interesting work on the part of a hoaxer. Im wondering if it was worth all the fuss to them, if so.

And to not even use "The Ripper" in the note...its impact is diminished by that element lacking really. If it was signed Yours Truly, Jack the Ripper, my bet is it would be the #1 choice for authentic correspondence.

Best regards.

[Sam Flynn]

Sam, if you read the transcript you'll find that Dr Pepper freely admits to his confusion about the sexual identity of the bodies he has to identify, and it is only when he get to the kidneys that he reaches a firm conclusion.

Only because the kidneys were in "an exceedingly good state of preservation" (his words), AP. In addition, we cannot get away from the fact that Pepper was involved in an investigation where a woman was missing, the remains in question were found in the basement of Dr Crippen's house, there were fragments of a woman's cotton undergarments found with the remains, and the hair was 8" long with curlers in it.

Openshaw received part of a kidney in isolation - no remains, knickers or curlers attached. As we've seen - and as Dr Pepper acknowledges - there is considerable variation in the weight of human kidneys, one needs to take into account the body mass index (or "build") of the (known) donor, and - as the research you posted confirms - there is also a considerable degree of overlap between the weights of male and female kidneys. Furthermore, although I need to confirm this, it makes reasonable sense to suppose that a male child's kidney could weigh as much as an adult woman's.

All that, and pigs besides.

[Cap'n Jack]

Sam, if you read the transcript you'll find that Dr Pepper freely admits to his confusion about the sexual identity of the bodies he has to identify, and it is only when he get to the kidneys that he reaches a firm conclusion.
That has been my suggestion all along.

[Sam Flynn]

' I think the weight of the kidney in this case was 2 3/4 oz.'

So said, Dr Pepper, and correctly identified it as a woman's kidney.

...of a certain build.

Incidentally, AP, that's very light compared to the data in the sample you posted a while back, even allowing for decomposition. They obviously weren't as well-fed back then.

Though I guess it might have belonged to a dwarf male.

...a child, or a pig.

How much did Openshaw say the Lusk kidney - sorry, Lusk kidney portion - weighed? And where did he record his calibration of same with Eddowes' body-mass index prior to forming his (alleged) opinion?

[Cap'n Jack]

' I think the weight of the kidney in this case was 2 3/4 oz.'

So said, Dr Pepper, and correctly identified it as a woman's kidney.
Though I guess it might have belonged to a dwarf male.
Did Crippen ever murder any male dwarfs, Sam?

[Sam Flynn]

Hello AP,

But Dr Pepper never thought it might be a male kidney, did he, Sam?

But then Dr Pepper would have been pretty certain about the sex of the kidney he was examining, he having removed it from the corpse in Crippen's cellar, a corpse in connection with which were found pieces of a woman's cotton knickers, and whose 8" long hair was in curlers.

[Cap'n Jack]

But Dr Pepper never thought it might be a male kidney, did he, Sam?

[Sam Flynn]

Sam, read the Crippen case in regard to kidneys, fried or grilled.

Thanks, AP - don't mind if I do. From the trial transcript, my emphasis:

"Taking a person of Mrs. Crippen's age and build, the normal weight of the kidney of a woman like that would vary from 3 to 4 oz.; it might be as much as 4 1/2 oz.; it is subject to considerable variation."

...which is what I've been saying all along. Interesting to note that Dr Pepper (I kid you not) takes into account the woman's build - not quite as precise as measuring her Body Mass Index, perhaps, but good on him.

[Cap'n Jack]

Sam, read the Crippen case in regard to kidneys, fried or grilled.

Thanks for that post Don, that type of data is just what I was looking for. Although I clearly expected different results.

It does seem reasonable based on your research that a kidney with signs of Nephritis might have been available on Sept 30th/88 or thereabouts, aside from the one Kate donated non-voluntarily. I do still think that would narrow the potential sources to students or practitioners of surgery, leading one to wonder whether we have indications in other areas of that kind of training....with some mixed medical conclusions on skill and knowledge.

If you ride that train of thought to the next logical stop, youd have to lean towards hoax I would think. I do want this to be meaningful, because there is a certain homey elegance in its simplicity, but you have me back on the fence.

As to Mr Williams, I did read that once, the only Ripper book I read only once, and that how I mistook Kate and Polly. Am I correct in remembering that these two women at times were called Emma? Anyway....I agree with your observations on the injustice of that type of book.

But for myself, I do not rule out organ specific motives in some cases.

Your friend as always, Cheers.