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  • Let's use our imagination ...

    Would you have thought the From Hell letter more or less genuine if it hadn't been accompanied by a kidney ? Why ?

  • #2
    Hi EJH

    the problem is that without the kidney, the content would have been completly different...

    As I view it, the kidney doesn't make it "more genuine", it is rather the addressee and the fact that it's not signed JtR that can give this impression.

    Amitiés,
    David

    Comment


    • #3
      the point is exactly to forget about the kidney and concentrate on these arguments.

      Why sending it to Lusk increases the fact it is genuine ? The sender could have been someone knowing Lusk very well and wanting to scare him or mock his work in the Committee. Hence the "strange" handwriting.
      A killer like JtR wouldn't have search for a greater renown for you ? Just a local man when he could easily reach national attention through press and police ?

      The fact it isn't signed JtR is interresting. But, the writer could have just forgot to sign, or disliking the tradename ?

      Do you think the spelling matches the supposed "medical skills" of JtR ?

      I'm not trying to give any hypothesis, these are just questions in order to have various opinion about the letter.
      So, what do you think about the letter ITSELF ?

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm afraid I'm very classic re From Hell...
        I think it's a hoax...but if one letter has to be genuine, it must be this one...
        Very classic...sorry...

        Amitiés,
        David

        Comment


        • #5
          I'm not sure if it's a hoax or not. Maybe the From Hell and Dear Boss are both from JtR, but he counterfeited his writing for Lusk because he was in the Vigilance Committee and Lusk knew his writing ? Or it was a red-herring, to induce he was a poor Irish illiterate, like the GSG induced a relation with Jews ?
          Just some random leads ... which need more opinions

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          • #6
            You can forget Dear Boss...ma tête à couper...
            But the Openshaw letter, just like FH, is not so bad...
            In fact, the only genuine communication is the GSG, imo.

            Amitiés,
            David

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi David,

              I agree with you about FH being a hoax, but perhaps it's worth discussing why the hoaxer shrank from signing it JtR when it would have been such an obvious thing to do.

              Regards,

              Simon
              Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
                Hi David,

                I agree with you about FH being a hoax, but perhaps it's worth discussing why the hoaxer shrank from signing it JtR when it would have been such an obvious thing to do.

                Regards,

                Simon
                If it was a "hoax" then it may have been intended to scare only Lusk himself, in which case, the package needs no Ripper signature. And based on the fact that he treated it as a personal correspondence, plopping it in his desk drawer until the morning after the next day, when he shows the committee members he told it about the night before....he doesn't act as if this is a piece of evidence in a Ripper murder investigation.

                Which raises an interesting possibility .....that the murder in Mitre Square was carried out by someone who was also interested in scaring or intimidating Lusk. If the kidney section was Catharine's....and her murderer not necessarily the Ripper.

                My best regards Simon
                Last edited by perrymason; 01-21-2010, 07:17 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Interresting idea Michael. What drew you to that hypothesis ?
                  I think too that the From Hell letter was intended to scare Lusk himself. Remember the previous letter ? It said that Lusk was hard to scare and that its author wanted to give him fits ... Why was Lusk hard to scare ? Did he go himself in the street to look for the murderer or this sentence referred to something of his business life ? Who were his ennemies ?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by E.J.H. View Post
                    Interresting idea Michael. What drew you to that hypothesis ?
                    I think too that the From Hell letter was intended to scare Lusk himself. Remember the previous letter ? It said that Lusk was hard to scare and that its author wanted to give him fits ... Why was Lusk hard to scare ? Did he go himself in the street to look for the murderer or this sentence referred to something of his business life ? Who were his ennemies ?
                    Hi EJ,

                    I certainly didnt have a full answer in mind when I commented. As you mentioned Lusk was feeling threatened before this letter and sample arrived, he had even sought out the police for protection. The manner in which he treats what anyone would assume is a possible communication from a killer at large.....particularly considering his involvement in pursuing the killer, is strange to me....one would think he would have immediately alerted the police.

                    Yet he didnt tell anyone for 24 hours. And the police were 3rd in line for notification, after he showed the committee members. Not certain if he showed it to any medical authority after getting word to the police or not.

                    That it may have been a hoax, meaning a real communication intended to represent itself as being from the man that killed Catharine Eddowes, is certainly possible, so is that it may have been her actual kidney section sent by someone intending to be thought of by the recipient as Jack the Ripper the killer at large or by the actual man wanted for the murders...despite the lack of the Ripper name itself....as Simon pointed out.

                    My hypothetical idea was that if Catharine was not killed by Jack the Ripper, but was killed by someone that wanted to scare and intimidate Lusk, not necessarily the public at large,... someone who was not the Ripper and saw no need to claim his victim as such...then the section could still have possibly been from Kate herself.

                    Thats why some categorical clarification needs to be made.... is it a communication intentionally suggesting it was from Jack the Ripper himself but actually wasnt...is it a communication that was really from Jack the Ripper and he saw no need to sign his "given" name to the note since he encloses the section....is it a private note to Lusk by someone who wants Lusk to think he was the man that killed the Mitre Square victim, or is it a private note to Lusk from Jack the Ripper?

                    Its not simply "fake" or "real".

                    The kidney section is the key to the authenticity I think...and unfortunately we can never know for sure if the sample matched the portion that remained in her.

                    Regards EJ

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by perrymason View Post
                      Its not simply "fake" or "real".
                      Neither of the letters are if you think about it. Because even if they're sent by another author than Jack, their purpose itself is part of the murders as they change completely the point of view of all the actors, the killer included.

                      Another solution would be that the FH was marketing ahead of its time ... a hoax made by Lusk and the others Committee members to draw attention on them, to gain credibility from the police, the press and the public. I guess it wasn't hard to find a kidney at this time ...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by E.J.H. View Post
                        Neither of the letters are if you think about it. Because even if they're sent by another author than Jack, their purpose itself is part of the murders as they change completely the point of view of all the actors, the killer included.

                        Another solution would be that the FH was marketing ahead of its time ... a hoax made by Lusk and the others Committee members to draw attention on them, to gain credibility from the police, the press and the public. I guess it wasn't hard to find a kidney at this time ...
                        He had been petitioning for reward monies to offer for information about the killer.....so....who knows.

                        But why not bring it to the attention of the Police immediately then?

                        Cheers

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I have no idea whether the Lusk letter is genuinely from the killer or not tho in my mind it's more likely to be the real deal than any of the other correspondence. For me a telling indication, maybe moreso than the kidney, is that it was sent to Lusk. Don't know how the minds of either serial killers or crank letter writers work but common criminals sometimes take things a lot more personally when ordinary citizens play copper. Underworld characters expect to be bothered by police and even by the press. It's all part of their job. A businessman playing detective would on the other hand be regarded as an interloper who should be minding his own business. Whether this would have been the feeling of the Whitechapel murderer or not, who knows? I'm also slightly swayed by the fact that the writer didn't use the "Jack the Ripper" signature. Could be, as I think some have pointed out, that the writer, if he was the killer, maybe would have been irritated by the letters from imposters.

                          On the other hand, both Lusk and the Vigilance Committee seem to have gotten a lot of publicity and could thus be expected to receive some crank correspondence anyhow.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by perrymason View Post
                            He had been petitioning for reward monies to offer for information about the killer.....so....who knows.

                            But why not bring it to the attention of the Police immediately then?

                            Cheers
                            Maybe he did so. The Committee's meeting was maybe just a "write a psychopath letter and cut some organ" meeting

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by perrymason View Post
                              The kidney section is the key to the authenticity I think...and unfortunately we can never know for sure if the sample matched the portion that remained in her.

                              Regards EJ
                              Hi Mike,

                              Well, this splendid contradiction makes a splendid conclusion.

                              Amitiés,
                              David

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