"...I may send you the bloody knif..."

[JTRSickert]

Hey everyone,

I had a question and it may seem maybe stupid to ask but I just wanted to clarify something. In the note, how do you think the context of the word "bloody" is being used? Do you think the author is referring to the knife literally dripping with the victim's blood? Or, is he using the word in a vulgar sense, like how we hear British people often use it as a harsh adjective? Example:

"Look at them! Bloody Catholics. Filling the bloody world up with bloody people they can't afford to bloody feed!"
-Graham Chapman, Monty Python and the Meaning of Life.

let me know what you think.

[Qlder]

JTRS, I don't have a "bloody" answer for you, but never forget that there is no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid answers.

[JTRSickert]

yeah Qider, it is tricky. I just was wondering if you or anyone else had an opinion concerning the context.

[lynn cates]

bilingual

Hello JTR. I would assume the writer meant the former sense.

British people also say things like:

"Now see here. You come into my house quite uninvited. You insult my guests. You break things."

I wonder what Americans say?

The best.
LC

[JTRSickert]

Well, lynn, this is what I heard about Americans:

"You always talk, you
Americans, you talk and you talk and say 'Let me tell you something' and
'I just wanna say this', Well you're dead now, so shut up."

And I've heard things about British as well:

"You Englishmen... You're all so f***ing pompous and
none of you have got any b@lls."

Anyway, this is getting off topic. Please excuse my humor.

[lynn cates]

theatre

Hello JTR. Answer is correct. But I'm not certain how they came to die at the same time?

Sorry. Back to topic.

It seems some of the communications used red ink. It all seems like theatre to me.

The best.
LC

[Archaic]

It seems some of the communications used red ink. It all seems like theatre to me.

The best. LC

I certainly agree with you there, Lynn.

Best regards, Archaic

[mklhawley]

So JTR,

If it is correct that "bloody" was used in the vulgar sense, then this just might suggest the Ripper was home grown. I'm sure the three American suspects did not use this adjective, except if they were being sarcastic. Interesting.

Mike

[Qlder]

Now that I'm back (briefly) to JTR land...

My best reading of the letter is that the author (whoever they were) was punning with as much gusto as the Python team ever mustered, using "bloody" in both its primary adjectival sense and in its sense as a vulgar "intensifier".
In this day and age, after bloody's very extensive use (especially by Australians) it is generally considered merely coarse, but in the late 1880's the expression would still have brought very disapproving looks if uttered within hearing of genteel, middle- and upper-class folks.

"I may send you the bloody knif that took it out if you only wate a whil longer".

I think the author was playing around as the illiterate style is almost certainly faux. If you spell "wait" as "wate", why yould you not have an "e" at the end of "knif" and "whil", and of course both these have somewhat complex constructions (kn & wh) at the start which the author managed without fault. If you accept that the author was putting on the guise of an illiterate, then it's not much further to think that they were having a very dark laugh when scribing "bloody" on the letter.

It's now past midnight in my part of the world. Good-night one and all.

[Archaic]

My best reading of the letter is that the author (whoever they were) was punning with as much gusto as the Python team ever mustered, using "bloody" in both its primary adjectival sense and in its sense as a vulgar "intensifier".

Hi, Qolder, and welcome to the forums.

I agree with you that the word "bloody" in this letter meant both the literal, "covered in blood", and a very rude expletive.

I am always surprised at how few overt expletives the Ripper letters contain; the writer preferred clearly puns, double-entendres and his own inside jokes to the more common sort of vulgarity. Even when pretending to be illiterate or obtuse, his sense of humor shows sophistication.

Interesting, isn't it?

Best regards, Archaic

[JTRSickert]

Archaic,

In Evans and Skinner's Letters book, there are quite a number of Ripper letters with expleteives. Take the letters of Novermber 8, 1888 addressed to Warren and one on the 12th of November to leman Street Police Station.

[Archaic]

re: Foul Language

Hi, JT.

When you consider that the writer was free to write ANYTHING, I think it's quite noticeable that the language isn't chock-full of the most outrageous expletives, rudest obscenities, and crudest sexual slang of the day. There's a little, but it's on the mild side.

Believe me, people in the 19th C. knew terms just as blatantly nasty as those we hear today! I've studied old English slang, and much of it would make a sailor blush. You don't often see it in print because it was so offensive, but that doesn't mean it was spoken and used in real life.

The author of the Ripper letters obviously wants to come off as "uneducated" and "unrefined" in many of his letters, so why doesn't he let rip with more nasty language? After all, he's out in public committing some of the grossest sexual mutilations in the history of the world and then taking credit for them in his letters.

When Police and victim's families receive letters from purported killers they frequently contain the most obscene and vile language imaginable. The killers are often quite explicit about what they did to the previous victims and intend to do to the next victims. Serial Killers frequently derive a sick enjoyment from compounding the pain, horror, and revulsion that the police, the public, and their victims' families feel. If you want an example, books dealing with SK Psychology are full of them. Read the letter that the killer of little Adam Walsh sent to Adam's father John; it's horrific and revolting. (In all honesty I wish I had never seen it, because its vulgarity and cruelty have stuck in my head for years.)

I think it's very interesting that the Ripper letters aren't more in that vein. After all, he is writing with perfect impunity.

I have read the book 'Letters From Hell' numerous times, it's one of my favorites.
But I see fouler language posted in the viewer remarks on YouTube than I do in the Ripper letters.

Best regards, Archaic

[lynn cates]

author

Hello Archaic.

"When you consider that the writer was free to write ANYTHING, I think it's quite noticeable that the language isn't chock-full of the most outrageous expletives, rudest obscenities, and crudest sexual slang of the day. There's a little, but it's on the mild side."

I wonder if that's not a good reason to attribute these letters to someone other than the killer?

The best.
LC

[Archaic]

Hi, Lynn.

I have considered that possibility, but in my opinion it relates more to the Ripper's internal motivation for writing the letters in the first place.

I think it's actually another interesting facet of his preference for puns, mockery, head-games, and the snide rather than what we would call "four letter words".

It has also occurred to me that if his letters contained words too overtly obscene, the newspapers would have refused to publish them...ans I think he liked seeing his letters printed in the newspaper.

I believe it fed his ego to have the letters displayed and discussed in public where they could frighten, disturb, and baffle an infinitely larger number of people than merely the addressees.

Best regards, Archaic