Jack's writing?

[JacknJill]

Personally, I've never believed that this letter came from Jack himself. I think the first Boss one could have been from Jack, but the From Hell one I've always doubted. It barely even shares the same tone as Boss and it's illiterate to the point of being nearly ridiculous. And the way in which it is written seems to me to just cry out "HOAX!". It's worded the way someone would word a joke.
Anyway - what do you think?
Did I point out it's not even signed from Jack? It's signed "Catch me if you can".

[Mort Belfry]

Did I point out it's not even signed from Jack? It's signed "Catch me if you can".

This point is elaborated by John Douglas who believes that the "Dear Boss" letters are not written by the killer, and not signing the Fom Hell letter "Jack the Ripper" was a way to reclaim his own murders after somebody else had picked his media monicker for him.

[Mort Belfry]

Douglas also mentions that sending it to George Lusk and not the Central News Agency shows that the killer had a very localised view of the world, that Whitechapel was his entire universe.

[JacknJill]

That's an interesting point of view. I've never heard that before but thankyou for pointing it out for me. I'll look it up.

[Grim]

Personally, I've never believed that this letter came from Jack himself. I think the first Boss one could have been from Jack, but the From Hell one I've always doubted. It barely even shares the same tone as Boss and it's illiterate to the point of being nearly ridiculous. And the way in which it is written seems to me to just cry out "HOAX!". It's worded the way someone would word a joke.
Anyway - what do you think?
Did I point out it's not even signed from Jack? It's signed "Catch me if you can".

I've always been under the impression that Jack lived in the Whitechapel district. In proximity to where all of the victims were found. The from hell letter is most likely to be the true letter (If Jack even wrote a letter) because of the fact that it contained a human kidney.

I believe that Jack wasn't very well educated at all and that his spelling wouldn't have been the best in the area at the time. I am a lot more inclined to believe from hell is the real deal whilst dr boss is a hoax.

[DVV]

Douglas also mentions that sending it to George Lusk and not the Central News Agency shows that the killer had a very localised view of the world, that Whitechapel was his entire universe.

Hi Mort,
as far as I know, George Lusk was living in Mile End.

Amitiés,
David

[dixon9]

pretty new to this,but after viewing three letters (Dear Boss,Saucy Jacky postcard and the from hell to George Lusk),to my untrained eye i would say all three could not be from the same hand/person.Look at the grammar in the Dear Boss letter( words like wouldn't) ans the saucy jacky post card (you'll),while the From Hell sender can hardly string two words together without a spelling mistake let alone using correct grammar.The question is are any from Jack,if yes please could you point me in the direction of which you (experts)think are from 'Jack'
thanks

[Limehouse]

A closer study of the 'From Hell' letter

I am not so sure the 'From Hell' letter was written by someone as illiterate as he/she would want us to believe:

From hell.
Mr Lusk,
Sor
I send you half the Kidne I took from one woman and prasarved it for you tother piece I fried and ate it was very nise. I may send you the bloody knif that took it out if you only wate a whil longer


signed
Catch me when you can Mishter Lusk


Firstly, the writer knows there is an 'l' in the word 'half' which is silent in most dialects. Secondly, the writer spells 'piece' and 'bloody' correctly. You would expect someone really illiterate to use a more phonic spelling logic such as 'pese or pees or bludy/blude. If he can spell bloody, why can't he spell kidney? He also correctly manages the silent 'h' in while and the silent k in 'knife'.

I think the writer is faking his/her illiteracy.

[dixon9]

good stuff limehouse i will bear that in mind

dixon9
"still learning"

[timsta]

I've always thought this would make a good experiment:

Take a class of, say 8-year-olds. Dictate a passage to them which contains most of the words in the Lusk letter (although, obviously, in a completely different context). Examine the nature and frequency of the spelling mistakes made. I think the results might prove quite interesting. Personally I do not see any problems with the silent k in 'knife' (or 'knif'): this is an exception that is learned early on in the acquisition of English; or similarly with the silent h in 'while' (or 'whil'): all similar prepositions/interrogatives in English follow this pattern (when, which, where, etc.) 'Kidney', however, is a word unlikely to be encountered in, say, a good Board School education.

A couple of other notes: 'prasarved' would be a completely phonetic spelling in C19 English (compare marchant/merchant, the American vs. British English pronunciation of 'clerk' and 'derby', etc.).

And I find it hard to believe that no-one has already noted that 'tother' is *quite* specific to Northern English dialects, and *quite* unknown in London English of the C19 or indeed any period, to my knowledge.

Regards
Timsta

[Limehouse]

I've always thought this would make a good experiment:

Take a class of, say 8-year-olds. Dictate a passage to them which contains most of the words in the Lusk letter (although, obviously, in a completely different context). Examine the nature and frequency of the spelling mistakes made. I think the results might prove quite interesting. Personally I do not see any problems with the silent k in 'knife' (or 'knif'): this is an exception that is learned early on in the acquisition of English; or similarly with the silent h in 'while' (or 'whil'): all similar prepositions/interrogatives in English follow this pattern (when, which, where, etc.) 'Kidney', however, is a word unlikely to be encountered in, say, a good Board School education.

A couple of other notes: 'prasarved' would be a completely phonetic spelling in C19 English (compare marchant/merchant, the American vs. British English pronunciation of 'clerk' and 'derby', etc.).

And I find it hard to believe that no-one has already noted that 'tother' is *quite* specific to Northern English dialects, and *quite* unknown in London English of the C19 or indeed any period, to my knowledge.

Regards
Timsta

Fair enough Timsta, but why is it that the writer does not spell 'wate' correctly but gives it an 'e' ending, that would correctly give the 'a' a long vowel sound (as in mate, hate, fate etc) but does not do so for 'knife' and 'while'?

You make a good point about the spelling of 'prasarved' and the use of 'tother' but overlook the 'sur' in the salutation. Some theorists (I can't remember who) have pointed out that these are typical Irish pronounciations (or the pronouncitation of someone trying to imitate Irish pronounciation) and that the letter is a fake written by someone trying to appear Irish.

My guess would be that it was possibly an actor.

[Graham]

Didn't MacNaghten record that he thought the 'From Hell' letter to be the work of some student pranksters? If it was genuinely from the Whitechapel Murderer, then I'm a Dutchman...

...I also believe that it was never positively proven that the kidney came from Eddowes. Chances are that it came from a medical school somewhere.

Cheers,

Graham

[perrymason]

Hi all,

I think a good candidate for the letter and surprise package might be the Irishman who was seen in a local shop by its keeper, who asked for a paper from the young woman, took it with gloved hands, and copied down Lusks address from an article within. It wasnt a complete address as I recall, and the package was addressed similarly incompletely as well....again, as I recall.

Best regards

[timsta]

Fair enough Timsta, but why is it that the writer does not spell 'wate' correctly but gives it an 'e' ending, that would correctly give the 'a' a long vowel sound (as in mate, hate, fate etc) but does not do so for 'knife' and 'while'?

You make a good point about the spelling of 'prasarved' and the use of 'tother' but overlook the 'sur' in the salutation. Some theorists (I can't remember who) have pointed out that these are typical Irish pronounciations (or the pronouncitation of someone trying to imitate Irish pronounciation) and that the letter is a fake written by someone trying to appear Irish.

My guess would be that it was possibly an actor.

Hi Limehouse. Well, that was exactly my point: I'd be really interested to see a real-life study of the prevalence of these types of spelling mistakes as rendered by someone (e.g. a child or children) with the level of proficiency in English that we might expect from someone with a typical late C19 working-class education. I don't think it's as unlikely as some claim that a mix of correct, partially correct and incorrect spellings might occur in a text such as this.

I'm not sure the 'Sor' is a done deal. I've certainly seen assertions from those more skilled than I in reading C19 penmanship that this might well actually be 'Sir'.

I don't believe 'tother' to be a feature of Irish dialect but perhaps someone else can add their knowledge as regards this point.

Graham: As I've averred on these boards for many years now, if this was a prank committed by a medical student or students, it was a very foolish one given that the police were extremely interested in medical students at the time (and indeed mortuary workers and anyone else who might be expected to attend postmortems). There's a world of difference between firing off a hoax letter from the North of England (and indeed being imprisoned for it) and being discovered to be someone who sent an (on the face of it plausible) WM communication with a kidney that could not be categorically proved *not* to have been human.

Still doesn't mean I think the letter was genuine, btw. And I also find the story of the 'Irishman' enquiring as to Lusk's address - if true - to be compelling.

Regards
Timsta

[perrymason]

Ive been re-reading some materials and it seems fairly clear to me that most Ripperologists and most Ripper authors concede that of all the letters that were received and cataloged, From Hell is likely one of the authentic ones. Perhaps the only one.

Since it contains contrived wording, double traced characters, incorrect phonetic spelling with correct spelling adjacent, was not sent to the authorities or the press, and it is not signed from "Jack the Ripper", I tend to agree.

The kidney section will always be inconclusive, but Ive read more than one opinion that suggests the man is intentionally masking language and handwriting and is likely of Irish decent. Like the man who took Lusks address down from the shopkeepers paper that same week.

The self-rule Irishmen. Some who were in the final stages of a political assassination plot in London.....some who were preparing for the Public Hearings to be held in the Winter of 99.

Best regards