If the 'Dear Boss' letter is a hoax...

[John G]

[QUOTE=Pierre;394604]

Robert

I hope you don't mind me answering this.

Nothing has been established at all:

Not the writer of the letter.

Not the date it was written or posted.





LIAR.

"Liar"? Don't you think you might be under a bit of a strain at the moment?

[David Orsam]

That is wrong. Every letter has provenance but we are not always able to establish it.

I agree with you on this occasion Pierre. The letter does have a provenance but, at the same time, it's not a very good one because we don't have the original and the only evidence of its existence is in a secondary source, being a book published for commercial profit by a journalist.

I'm curious as to why you have suddenly started to trust secondary sources having lectured us constantly about the importance of official primary sources.

[Pierre]

[QUOTE=Elamarna;394595]Robert

I hope you don't mind me answering this.

Nothing has been established at all:

Not the writer of the letter.

Not the date it was written or posted.

However we can look at what pierre has claimed on the issue:

To begin with Pierre posted 2 women would be killed in the Minority and both Berners-Lee Street and Mitre Square were in the parish of Holy Trinity Minority.

LIAR.

[Pierre]

The dear boss letter has provenance. It's the minories letter that doesn't.

That is wrong. Every letter has provenance but we are not always able to establish it.

Pierre

[Elamarna]

Has it been established whether he meant to kill in the Minories or find women in the Minories?

I still think the letter reads as two separate letters, like Dear Boss and Saucy Jack.
:

Robert

I hope you don't mind me answering this.

Nothing has been established at all:

Not the writer of the letter.

Not the date it was written or posted.


However we can look at what pierre has claimed on the issue:

To begin with Pierre posted 2 women would be killed in the Minority and both Berners-Lee Street and Mitre Square were in the parish of Holy Trinity Minority.

It was easy to show that this was not accurate as neither site was in the parish Pierre claimed.

He then attempted to say that it did not matter if the sites were in the parish or not because the killer may have believed they were.

Obviously this was not supported by any source.

Pierre now has changed his view, to the killer stated searching in the Minories. However to date no independent source other than the letter itself is given as a source for this claim.


It seems clear nothing has been established at all with regards to this letter.


Steve

[Elamarna]

ALL the alleged letters of Jack the Ripper have provenance regardless of their content, as they are written at that time.

So sorry Spider that is not true of the 29th inst.letter.
We have No idea as to its date of creation.

There appears to be no history of it until 1927.

There is no history of its ownership or origin. That is provenance; the letter 29th inst. does not have any

Steve

[Spider]

The dear boss letter has provenance. It's the minories letter that doesn't.

ALL the alleged letters of Jack the Ripper have provenance regardless of their content, as they are written at that time.

[John G]

Just to add to my earlier response to this post. The letter does not say there will be a double murder. The natural reading of the text is that the killer will commit a murder at midnight of the 1st/2nd of the month, i.e. at the point when the one day ends and the next begins.

But if your answer to my question of how do you know the letter was not written on 29 March 1889 is "Because there was no double murder following 29 March 1889", do you understand how absurd this is? If not, let me know and I will set it out in detail.

Yes, it's worth pointing out that the term midnight, when considered in the context of a date change, is ambiguous, as technically midnight is neither ante-meridian nor post-meridian, therefore neither the 1st nor 2nd of a month.

[David Orsam]

Was there a double murder in that are on 30th or 31st March 1889?

Just to add to my earlier response to this post. The letter does not say there will be a double murder. The natural reading of the text is that the killer will commit a murder at midnight of the 1st/2nd of the month, i.e. at the point when the one day ends and the next begins.

But if your answer to my question of how do you know the letter was not written on 29 March 1889 is "Because there was no double murder following 29 March 1889", do you understand how absurd this is? If not, let me know and I will set it out in detail.

[John G]

The dear boss letter has provenance. It's the minories letter that doesn't.

Thanks Abbey, a well-spotted mistake.

Note to self: I must remember not to send posts late at night after a night out, during which the odd beer may have been consumed!

Mind you, not sure Pierre would have noticed the error.

[Abby Normal]

The"Dear Boss" letter lacks provenance and therefore shouldn't be taken seriously: Discuss.

The dear boss letter has provenance. It's the minories letter that doesn't.

[Robert St Devil]

Your theory

Hi Pierre.

Do you account for the unscrupulous business that Central News performed by mocking that letter? An equally valid solution would have been to ,,misplace,, the item, and spare the embarassment of their oversight; police need not be involved. The only simple solution re: your theory i devise is that they needed to publicize the name Jack the Ripper in hopes someone may recognize and respond. Other than for that possibility i,d be left wondering why CNA editors devised a profitable scheme.

Has it been established whether he meant to kill in the Minories or find women in the Minories?

I still think the letter reads as two separate letters, like Dear Boss and Saucy Jack.

[GUT]

Well actually as the letter is dated 29th inst and says 1st and 2nd inst, internal criticism says the latter was written 27 or 28 days after the event as all three dates are in the one month "inst".

[Tecs]

Just thinking on this, the way ripperologists are now, even if an earlobe was sent in to the Police somebody nowadays would argue "Ah well the technical term for that external bit is the "Pinna", so the letter can't have come from the killer because he named it incorrectly!"

regards,


Tecs

[Elamarna]

If the letter was written on the 29th, then wouldn't he have had to have said "tonight after midnight, on the 30th", since that's when the double event took place.

Good point Joshua,

indeed even if written 29th September there is no way to know when it was posted.

In which case it is possible that the murders took place before it even arrived, yet alone read.

Steve