Dear Boss P.S.

[Shelley]

I see, so it's the scanning that gives the optical illusion! of the red ink writing, ha. So Tumbelty died a good while after the Ripper killings then, to my mind Tumbelty wasn't suffering with regression as i think that JTR was possibly, i'm certain that JTR would have died soon after, being very ill or committing suicide. I don't think that JTR would have written any letters or postcards, so i'm still convinced that the Dear Boss letter was fabricated likely by Bulling, as someone else pointed out on the boards that the handwriting would have shown a degree of anger, in which i agree as memory would spark off anger, as with the Killing of Eddowes the killer showed a lot of anger, likely triggered by her smell of stale alcohol about her, a memory of his mother perhaps? In any case i think alcohol would have been an issue with many a household, not just the poorer classes.

[perrymason]

If the killer they nicknamed "Jack" the Ripper, based on this letter sent to Central News, wrote Dear Boss and Saucy Jack, why werent one of or both of Kates ears taken.

If he didnt have the time at Berner Street...which is about the only sound argument to use when portraying that crime as a "Ripper" kill, ....then how is it he has time to cut and rip an apron, and not to cut an ear off...or take the nose he almost severed completely.

Why would he write suggesting some acts, then commit two murders right after that without them? Yet refer to the act in Saucy Jack as incomplete with only the first kill. I think what these two letters say to me is that whomever wrote Saucy Jack knew some of the Dear Boss content when he did.

Best regards all.

[Shelley]

If the killer they nicknamed "Jack" the Ripper, based on this letter sent to Central News, wrote Dear Boss and Saucy Jack, why werent one of or both of Kates ears taken.

If he didnt have the time at Berner Street...which is about the only sound argument to use when portraying that crime as a "Ripper" kill, ....then how is it he has time to cut and rip an apron, and not to cut an ear off...or take the nose he almost severed completely.

Why would he write suggesting some acts, then commit two murders right after that without them? Yet refer to the act in Saucy Jack as incomplete with only the first kill. I think what these two letters say to me is that whomever wrote Saucy Jack knew some of the Dear Boss content when he did.

Best regards all.

That's a very good point, we only have central news to say that they recieved the postcard on Oct 1st. However, the journalists would get news very quickly and note the injuries and make some of thier own stuff up in so called JTR letters and postcards, still not to miss that once a name has been publicised any hoaxer would latch on to it with what was milling around in his mind anyway. With Eddowes killing he made sure he got what he needed, that's why i don't think that Stride was a ripper killing at all, she was used as just a warning from a gang around the area, it was far better that gangs would use the older ones as warnings, as they couldn't reap in much money with the older ones, the younger ones would have brought in the money & they didn't want to lose that plus younger ones were 13 to a dozen in availability, it's just that the women didn't know that, but fear would work just as well with them to get them to toe the line. Especially when you see that Stride only did it on a part time basis as did others and tried to keep away and solitary from gangs, Stride would have made a good target and warning in this case, my guess is he cried ' Lipski ' because he had every intention of killing her, nothing more and nothing less.

[perrymason]

You paint with bold strokes Shelley, but I would very much doubt myself that this "killer" would only kill by choice. I think the only real argument for him being at Berner must involve some gratification that he never got...because the actual kills themselves seem to be not much more than vehicles for him to facilitate his actual goals, which had to involve cutting and mutilating fresh corpses.

All the best.

[Shelley]

You paint with bold strokes Shelley, but I would very much doubt myself that this "killer" would only kill by choice. I think the only real argument for him being at Berner must involve some gratification that he never got...because the actual kills themselves seem to be not much more than vehicles for him to facilitate his actual goals, which had to involve cutting and mutilating fresh corpses.

All the best.

Well, i have ben called opinionated and i guess that's a fair assumption, learned behaviour from my mother...Drats!
Another reason that i don't think that Stride was a Ripper Killing is because the description of the man that was given who cried ' Lipski ' i don't think he's the right age group, i don't think he was a young man, also i don't think he would have shouted out to get attention either, on the other victims faces, Nichols, Chapman and Eddowes they all had a thumb mark/bruising on thier cheek or jaw, he wasn't going to allow his victims a small squeal, so why would he shout out ' Lipski ' ?

[Mascara & Paranoia]

If he didnt have the time at Berner Street...which is about the only sound argument to use when portraying that crime as a "Ripper" kill, ....then how is it he has time to cut and rip an apron, and not to cut an ear off...or take the nose he almost severed completely.

Not that I think any of these letters are written by the killer, but pretending for a moment that they were, he might've gotten too carried away with mutilating Eddowes and simply forgot to 'clip' her ears off until he was later reminded when writing his little update of his latest 'work' in the Saucy Jacky (wicked name BTW) postcard.

[protohistorian]

You paint with bold strokes Shelley, but I would very much doubt myself that this "killer" would only kill by choice. I think the only real argument for him being at Berner must involve some gratification that he never got...because the actual kills themselves seem to be not much more than vehicles for him to facilitate his actual goals, which had to involve cutting and mutilating fresh corpses.

All the best.

Bravo Sir. Imagine that, a killer reacting to more than 1 stimuli? We are dangerously close to making our killer human!

[Shelley]

Bravo Sir. Imagine that, a killer reacting to more than 1 stimuli? We are dangerously close to making our killer human!

Well spotted Protohistorian. Somehow i can't see good enough reason why a guy would shout out ' Lipski ' if he were JTR to get attention, JTR was sure that no one was around when he was with one of his Victims, he was in need to mutilate and that's what he did, however with Nicholls he may well have been disturbed, so an attempt at mutilating, but it was some time before he struck again with Chapman, so the same night of Stride & Eddowes doesn't exactly tally up to my mind. I'll have to remember that word ' Stimuli ', it's quite correct. It's possible that gang members also didn't like older women doing part time prostitution, i think they may well have been trying to keep order on thier patch so to speak.

[Shelley]

Whether a general consensus exists on Bulling being the author of DB/SJ is a moot point, Bill. Personally, I find Bulling's handwriting quite dissimilar to that of Dear Boss, even allowing for some disguising of the handwriting. (I should point out that I don't see that the handwriting in DB/SJ etc. appears particularly "disguised" anyway.) I'm not the only one who doubts that Bulling wrote them either.

Whatever, whilst it might be redundant to discuss these letters in terms of the Ripper being their author, they are quite intriguing little mysteries in and of themselves.

Sam,
I can't remember which of the letters that was supposedly from Jack, but i do remember comparing such a letter with Bulling/Bullen's handwriting and Bulling/Bullen's signature was exactly the same handwriting that was supposed to be from Jack the Ripper, so Bulling/Bullen did have a hand in writing letters that was supposed to be from JTR, however it may not have been him alone. So which ever way it's looked at they were sensationalised correspondence perporting to be from the Ripper when infact they were not.

[Shelley]

Not that I think any of these letters are written by the killer, but pretending for a moment that they were, he might've gotten too carried away with mutilating Eddowes and simply forgot to 'clip' her ears off until he was later reminded when writing his little update of his latest 'work' in the Saucy Jacky (wicked name BTW) postcard.

That's a fair point Mascara & Paranoia, i wonder why JTR didn't take the rest of Kate's nose off and bring it back with him, as he took part of her kidney as well as her womb. Not to mention why he didn't cut the rest of the ear and take that. It obviously had to do with something inside her, in his mind. JTR could have taken the nose and the ear if he wanted to, he had the time to.

[chris14]

Thanks for your reply, Shelley. Yes, obviously, THEY didn't have the knowledge/technique for doing an analysis than that. But, if we'd find anything from the suspected real Ripper, he could be traced down. It wouldn't be easy, of course.

From this distance of time C14 analyses could be taken with a couple of years of mistake. This method could help in orienting us in the time, if something's a fake or not. The second step could be the collecting of the possible DNA samples. Eg. from letters, envelopes. Even if the stamps were printed on the envelopes, there would be a good chance to see the openings of the envelope, if it had been sealed with the saliva-sample of JTR.

The problem can be how to extract the DNA sample without damaging the original letter, envelope.

Everybody has relatives, close or not, but everybody must have relatives. 120 years is not that far away. The researchers could create a data-base for it, and try to find the relatives.

Of course, the lack of money and the personal right rubbish could prevent these steps to be done. But it's not impossible.

[chris14]

Of course, I know Patricia Cornwell tried to use DNA evidences in her book, which was quite convincing, actually. But I don't think she's right.

[Nothing to see]

I agree with you. I really admire Cornwell. She has her theory and she spent a great deal of money to back it up. But the mitrochondrial DNA does not point to Sickert and only Sickert. He also changed stationery which doesn't help this theory. I'm not expert enough on this point but I think he was in France during one of the murders?

He may have written one of the letters, or 2. But I don't think he wrote the lot and I don't believe he was Jack. I saw the original 'Dear Boss' at the Docklands Exhibition. There were others there as well. IMO they were written by many different hands in many different styles of writing.

[Mascara & Paranoia]

Of course, I know Patricia Cornwell tried to use DNA evidences in her book, which was quite convincing, actually. But I don't think she's right.

Not to turn this into a Cornwell thing but I actually think she was just being flash all the while pissing on the case and ruining an innocent man's name. I remember watching her documentary on YouTube thinking 'that's slander', it was really shocking actually. Sickert's the last person to have been the Ripper and was likely just interested in the case like the rest of us, only expressing his interest through his paintings instead. Nothing more.

That aside, I think DNA testing the letters was a little moot too. Not only is it 95% likely that they're all fake, but what's the point in obtaining DNA from them when there's nothing to compare that DNA too? I doubt 100% that any of the suspects, other than Sickert (who probably did so as a joke), wrote a single one of those hoax letters.

[Shelley]

Thanks for your reply, Shelley. Yes, obviously, THEY didn't have the knowledge/technique for doing an analysis than that. But, if we'd find anything from the suspected real Ripper, he could be traced down. It wouldn't be easy, of course.

From this distance of time C14 analyses could be taken with a couple of years of mistake. This method could help in orienting us in the time, if something's a fake or not. The second step could be the collecting of the possible DNA samples. Eg. from letters, envelopes. Even if the stamps were printed on the envelopes, there would be a good chance to see the openings of the envelope, if it had been sealed with the saliva-sample of JTR.

The problem can be how to extract the DNA sample without damaging the original letter, envelope.

Everybody has relatives, close or not, but everybody must have relatives. 120 years is not that far away. The researchers could create a data-base for it, and try to find the relatives.

Of course, the lack of money and the personal right rubbish could prevent these steps to be done. But it's not impossible.

Chris,
What about the DNA if any from the postal services workers, what about Central News Journalist's DNA, then of course all the people that handled the correspondence in between, from police to the public records office. Given that there has been air exposure to these paper items as well, and DNA would be taken from oils that have leaked from said fingers, this still can be taken in minute globules from water in the air and thus we have evaopration, there may not be anything left to get a DNA sample, it would be the same for the saliva from the postage stamp as well, as in evaporation from heat and handling, left in a sunny position etc but then who's DNA if any could & i wouldn't think so would be looked at and where can a comparison be made?
I really do think the idea of DNA with the JTR case is at a loss.