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Submitting the Dear Boss envelope for DNA testing

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  • Michael W Richards
    replied
    Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
    Hi Al, I'll have to look, I do recall something in writing years ago. It was actually Ben who drew my attention to this video, he didn't like the fact the Star newspaper was being ridiculed. Ben didn't know a whole lot about the reputation of the Star in it's first year, and the depths they would go, to sell copy.
    It was the Star that dreamed up the story about Hutchinson being discredited, no other paper repeated it because it was a fiction purely intended to sell copy.

    I'm intrigued at the reference to Ernest Parke in January of 1890, that is when he was imprisoned for a year..
    https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/brow...=t18900113-139
    for Unlawful & malicious publication concerning the Cleveland Street Scandal, but he wasn't working for the Star at the time - a bit of a puzzle, unless it was some other infringement.

    Anyway, not to get off topic.....
    Your perspective on the Star report has been duly noted, but the article has never been proven to be fiction. Your contention that the Star plunged the depths is perhaps loosely accurate, but on a story by story basis, they cannot summarily be dismissed. A liar doesnt always lie.

    The fact that you support Hutchinson, like Abberline did, means little besides your own perspective. From my perspective his story, his fanciful details, his delay, all combine to make him extremely questionable. And the fact he vanishes back from whence he came might indicate his true value.

    I believe his story acomplishesd precisely what it was intended to do. Change the loitering man Sarah saw from a lurking malevolence which prompted a Pardon For Accomplices, to one of a concerned, albeit semi-stalker, friend. He claimed he knew Mary, do we have reasons to accept his word on that? Did anyone see Mary leave her room after entering it with Blotchy at 11:45pm?

    With Hutchinsons remarks Astrakan takes Primary Suspect spot, and Blotchy, the most obvious suspect, is just set aside. Huge mistake there. Which they corrected by abandoning Georgie. Sadly too late to avoid damaging the hopes of ever finding Blotchy.
    Last edited by Michael W Richards; 05-27-2021, 12:58 PM.

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  • Wickerman
    replied
    Best didn't invent anybody.

    Leave a comment:


  • erobitha
    replied
    Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

    When writing this post I had in mind the video which explained the relevance of the shareholders letter at the Star newspaper, but I couldn't remember the title of the video.
    Here it is:
    https://youtu.be/fFTj_OmEVKM?list=PL...rngfyfq7TBSPaO
    It's only about 45 minutes long, but you can jump to the specific point where this is revealed around the 36th minute.

    Kelvin McKenzie, a former tabloid editor was researching into the role the Star newspaper played in publishing stories of the Whitechapel Murders, and their lack of regard for the truth.

    McKenzie meets up with Andrew Cook who was also conducting research into the Star newspaper when he found a shareholders letter which contained a very important sentence concerning certain dubious activities of one of their journalists - Frederick Best.

    The letter, written by the senior shareholder reads, in part:

    "I have submitted on a number of occasions that Mr. O'Connor's former use of compatriots such as Messrs Best and O'Brien have not only been responsible for several potential legal actions against the Star, but in the unfortunate case of Mr. Parke, a somewhat more serious consequence in January last.

    Furthermore, Mr. Best's attempt to mislead Central News during the Whitechapel Murders should have led to an earlier termination of his association with the newspaper."


    This letter appears to refer to the writing of the Dear Boss letter, that was sent to mislead Central News. An agency which provides newspaper stories by wire across the country, and is on what might be described as 'intimate' terms with Scotland Yard.

    What is more, Cook managed to locate an actual letter written by Best from his estate and taken had it taken to a graphologist to compare with the Dear Boss letter.
    The conclusion was, the graphologist was "as sure as she can be that Frederick Best wrote the Dear Boss letter."

    Incase you were not aware, The Star was almost taken to court by John Pizer for publishing accusations that he was the murderer known as Leather Apron. They settled out of court.
    The Star newspaper was a radical tabloid that didn't let the truth get in the way of a good fictional story.
    For inventing make-believe people Best & Co did pretty well with the whole persona and moniker of Jack The Ripper.

    Surprised The Star never published a warts and all interview with The Ripper himself at his lodgings. Maybe he also lived with an interpreter too

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  • paul g
    replied
    Sounds like the Daily Star is the 1880’s equivalent of the Daily sport Uk newspaper.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wickerman
    replied
    Hi Al, I'll have to look, I do recall something in writing years ago. It was actually Ben who drew my attention to this video, he didn't like the fact the Star newspaper was being ridiculed. Ben didn't know a whole lot about the reputation of the Star in it's first year, and the depths they would go, to sell copy.
    It was the Star that dreamed up the story about Hutchinson being discredited, no other paper repeated it because it was a fiction purely intended to sell copy.

    I'm intrigued at the reference to Ernest Parke in January of 1890, that is when he was imprisoned for a year..
    https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/brow...=t18900113-139
    for Unlawful & malicious publication concerning the Cleveland Street Scandal, but he wasn't working for the Star at the time - a bit of a puzzle, unless it was some other infringement.

    Anyway, not to get off topic.....

    Leave a comment:


  • Al Bundy's Eyes
    replied
    Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

    When writing this post I had in mind the video which explained the relevance of the shareholders letter at the Star newspaper, but I couldn't remember the title of the video.
    Here it is:
    https://youtu.be/fFTj_OmEVKM?list=PL...rngfyfq7TBSPaO
    It's only about 45 minutes long, but you can jump to the specific point where this is revealed around the 36th minute.

    Kelvin McKenzie, a former tabloid editor was researching into the role the Star newspaper played in publishing stories of the Whitechapel Murders, and their lack of regard for the truth.

    McKenzie meets up with Andrew Cook who was also conducting research into the Star newspaper when he found a shareholders letter which contained a very important sentence concerning certain dubious activities of one of their journalists - Frederick Best.

    The letter, written by the senior shareholder reads, in part:

    "I have submitted on a number of occasions that Mr. O'Connor's former use of compatriots such as Messrs Best and O'Brien have not only been responsible for several potential legal actions against the Star, but in the unfortunate case of Mr. Parke, a somewhat more serious consequence in January last.

    Furthermore, Mr. Best's attempt to mislead Central News during the Whitechapel Murders should have led to an earlier termination of his association with the newspaper."


    This letter appears to refer to the writing of the Dear Boss letter, that was sent to mislead Central News. An agency which provides newspaper stories by wire across the country, and is on what might be described as 'intimate' terms with Scotland Yard.

    What is more, Cook managed to locate an actual letter written by Best from his estate and taken had it taken to a graphologist to compare with the Dear Boss letter.
    The conclusion was, the graphologist was "as sure as she can be that Frederick Best wrote the Dear Boss letter."

    Incase you were not aware, The Star was almost taken to court by John Pizer for publishing accusations that he was the murderer known as Leather Apron. They settled out of court.
    The Star newspaper was a radical tabloid that didn't let the truth get in the way of a good fictional story.
    Great post there Jon,

    I seem to recall reading an article along these lines in Ripperologist, but I might be wrong, but it offered good evidence for Best being the author of the Dear Boss letter, based on later information regarding Bests conduct and later acknowledgment of the potential **** storm that might happen if the Central News Agency kept him on. Have I misremembered this detail?

    Leave a comment:


  • Wickerman
    replied
    Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

    Might as well start with the obvious then, the descendants of; Tom Bulling, Charles Moore & Fred Best, to keep the cost down.
    When writing this post I had in mind the video which explained the relevance of the shareholders letter at the Star newspaper, but I couldn't remember the title of the video.
    Here it is:
    https://youtu.be/fFTj_OmEVKM?list=PL...rngfyfq7TBSPaO
    It's only about 45 minutes long, but you can jump to the specific point where this is revealed around the 36th minute.

    Kelvin McKenzie, a former tabloid editor was researching into the role the Star newspaper played in publishing stories of the Whitechapel Murders, and their lack of regard for the truth.

    McKenzie meets up with Andrew Cook who was also conducting research into the Star newspaper when he found a shareholders letter which contained a very important sentence concerning certain dubious activities of one of their journalists - Frederick Best.

    The letter, written by the senior shareholder reads, in part:

    "I have submitted on a number of occasions that Mr. O'Connor's former use of compatriots such as Messrs Best and O'Brien have not only been responsible for several potential legal actions against the Star, but in the unfortunate case of Mr. Parke, a somewhat more serious consequence in January last.

    Furthermore, Mr. Best's attempt to mislead Central News during the Whitechapel Murders should have led to an earlier termination of his association with the newspaper."


    This letter appears to refer to the writing of the Dear Boss letter, that was sent to mislead Central News. An agency which provides newspaper stories by wire across the country, and is on what might be described as 'intimate' terms with Scotland Yard.

    What is more, Cook managed to locate an actual letter written by Best from his estate and taken had it taken to a graphologist to compare with the Dear Boss letter.
    The conclusion was, the graphologist was "as sure as she can be that Frederick Best wrote the Dear Boss letter."

    Incase you were not aware, The Star was almost taken to court by John Pizer for publishing accusations that he was the murderer known as Leather Apron. They settled out of court.
    The Star newspaper was a radical tabloid that didn't let the truth get in the way of a good fictional story.

    Leave a comment:


  • Astatine211
    replied
    Originally posted by erobitha View Post
    This is the first response from my DNA / Machine Learning Professor friend. Like most people he has an awareness of JtR but he would like to investigate in more detail the types of conditions the letters and envelopes are likely to be stored in before he recommends the best tests for the purpose I explained. His response is below, will add to thread when he comes back with more:

    “Good because I would not like to answer too quickly. I mean there is metagenomics sequencing which would be a good start, but the fact we are talking about a sample from 1888 that has more than likely not been stored in the most favourable conditions, I would need time to look into it a little more. Anything is possible these days with regards to testing. I’ll get back to you.”
    Awesome. Thank you for asking him about this.

    Leave a comment:


  • erobitha
    replied
    This is the first response from my DNA / Machine Learning Professor friend. Like most people he has an awareness of JtR but he would like to investigate in more detail the types of conditions the letters and envelopes are likely to be stored in before he recommends the best tests for the purpose I explained. His response is below, will add to thread when he comes back with more:

    “Good because I would not like to answer too quickly. I mean there is metagenomics sequencing which would be a good start, but the fact we are talking about a sample from 1888 that has more than likely not been stored in the most favourable conditions, I would need time to look into it a little more. Anything is possible these days with regards to testing. I’ll get back to you.”

    Leave a comment:


  • Fiver
    replied
    Originally posted by DJA View Post
    Henry Gawen Sutton.
    There's an old saying - "put your money where your mouth is". Instead of presenting your case, you repeatedly hint at it on unrelated threads. If you really think you have a solution, then present it clearly with evidence in a dedicated thread. But you seem wedded to your current strategy of repeated self-promotion, so I doubt you will ever clearly and completely present your case.

    Leave a comment:


  • DJA
    replied
    Have a peep at the second post.

    Leave a comment:


  • tanta07
    replied
    Why specifically is it the Dear Boss letter that's being chosen for this analysis? The Dear Boss letter was almost certainly a hoax, perpetuated by an enterprising journalist. Any DNA extracted from it would only point you to THAT guy's bloodline, not the killer. I'm of the opinion that if any Ripper letter has even the slightest chance of being authentic (from the killer himself), it's only the From Hell letter that came with the Lusk kidney. And I even have my doubts about that one.

    I suppose analyzing these letters for DNA would make for an interesting exercise, mostly to see if any usable DNA can even be extracted. But to identify the killer? Not likely. On the other hand, if DNA can be used to confirm that it was a journalist who sent the letter, it would be kind of interesting to put that to bed once and for all.

    Leave a comment:


  • DJA
    replied
    Toddle off and do some useless maps.

    There are people here with positive intent.

    Leave a comment:


  • JeffHamm
    replied
    Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

    Certainly, because we had a name to start with, modern descendants of King Richard III would have been traceable through a family tree. With the 'stamplicker', we have nothing unless we begin looking at the descendants of the Enterprising journalist.
    Hi,

    Well, if there were unlimited funds, and if it were possible to obtain a useable DNA profile from the back of the stamp (the first is not true obviously, and the latter is unlikely as far as I understand), then one could do the sort of genealogical analysis that has been successful in some cold cases. To the extent it would narrow the search sufficiently to provide an identification is unknown until done, of course, but presumably it would narrow down to a set of candidates who could become the focus of more focused comparisons.

    I suspect, though, that no useable DNA profile would result, but as I'm have no expertise in that field, my suspicions do not mean anything one way or the other. The cost for such an endeavor would be prohibitive I would imagine. So while the will might be there, the funds are not, particularly as the starting point is that the expected outcome is to find the letter to be a hoax.

    If we had the From Hell letter, that might be of more interest as there is more pointing towards it being a possible genuine letter, and even that has never been universally agreed upon.

    - Jeff
    Last edited by JeffHamm; 04-04-2021, 10:16 PM.

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  • DJA
    replied
    Henry Gawen Sutton.

    Leave a comment:

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