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  • Ginger Beer

    The reference to Ginger Beer eludes to JTR having consumed the contents prior.

    Was the specific reference to Ginger Beer a clue as to the killer's location?


    George Hostler was a Ginger Beer maker who lived next door to Charles Lechmere.


    Purely a coincidence of course, but i love coincidences


    Ha Ha

  • #2
    Originally posted by The Rookie Detective View Post
    The reference to Ginger Beer eludes to JTR having consumed the contents prior.

    Was the specific reference to Ginger Beer a clue as to the killer's location?


    George Hostler was a Ginger Beer maker who lived next door to Charles Lechmere.


    Purely a coincidence of course, but i love coincidences


    Ha Ha
    And wasn’t Joseph Barnett lodging with a mineral water maker named Isaac Hostler in 1901?

    Comment


    • #3
      According to the Booth survey of 1887, there was then a ‘Ginger Beer Manufactory and Shop’ at 2, James Street, so no longer CAL’s next door neighbour.

      Comment


      • #4
        ​​​​​​​​​​​​Some ginger-beer bottles were reportedly found in Mary Jane Kelly's room. And what with her nickname being Ginger, I think the implications go without saying...

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
          ​​​​​​​​​​​​Some ginger-beer bottles were reportedly found in Mary Jane Kelly's room. And what with her nickname being Ginger, I think the implications go without saying...
          Perhaps she had gingivitis, dentistry not quite being what it is now, too?
          " Queen Vic lured her victims into dark corners with offers of free fish and chips, washed down with White Satin." - forum user C4

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
            ​​​​​​​​​​​​Some ginger-beer bottles were reportedly found in Mary Jane Kelly's room. And what with her nickname being Ginger, I think the implications go without saying...
            …that blotchy face was carrying a pale of ginger beer?
            Andrew's the man, that is not blamed for nothing

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post

              And wasn’t Joseph Barnett lodging with a mineral water maker named Isaac Hostler in 1901?
              Don't believe this is the same Joseph Barnett due to significant age difference, but the Hostler guy is fascinating.


              So, the Isaac Hostler you refer to was indeed a mineral water maker.

              Well, i say 'mineral water' maker, but he was in fact a criminal who was officially convicted in 1892 for selling water under a false trademark i.e. saying it was mineral water but diluting it.

              He was also alleged to have stolen a horse with another man and taken it to Essex, but he was found not guilty of this particular charge.


              Isaac's brother George was the Ginger Beer Maker who lived next to Lechmere.

              As you say, there was a Ginger Beer Manufactory at No. 2 James St.


              Interestingly, George Hostler is listed as being married to his wife Alice, but this wasn't true.
              They were living together and their children all born out of wedlock.

              George and Alice finally got married in 1904



              Incidentally, at least 2 of their children attended the Berner St school, yards away from where Stride was later slain.



              And potentially even more baffling...


              On George's marriage certificate to Alice, the space between his first and last name, partially written over the words "parish Church"..it looks like he has written the words "Jack"


              Initially i thought it was the word "Alice" which has been written in the wrong place and crossed through but the word is deliberately written through the words "parish church"... strange.

              It's not even a written attempt at an abbreviation of his middle name "Frederick"

              I may of course be wrong, but it does looks like he has written "jack"

              If that is the case, why would he do that?


              He may have lived next to a prime suspect in Lechmere, had 2 children attend the Berner Street school, worked as a Ginger Beer maker and confectioner, had a brother who was imprisoned for selling dodgy water and alleged to have stolen a horse, been living unmarried with several children before marrying in later life...(okay so the latter one was only frowned upon at the time)

              but writing "Jack" on his marriage certificate?



              Bizarre


              TRD









              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by The Rookie Detective View Post

                Don't believe this is the same Joseph Barnett due to significant age difference, but the Hostler guy is fascinating.


                So, the Isaac Hostler you refer to was indeed a mineral water maker.

                Well, i say 'mineral water' maker, but he was in fact a criminal who was officially convicted in 1892 for selling water under a false trademark i.e. saying it was mineral water but diluting it.

                He was also alleged to have stolen a horse with another man and taken it to Essex, but he was found not guilty of this particular charge.


                Isaac's brother George was the Ginger Beer Maker who lived next to Lechmere.

                As you say, there was a Ginger Beer Manufactory at No. 2 James St.


                Interestingly, George Hostler is listed as being married to his wife Alice, but this wasn't true.
                They were living together and their children all born out of wedlock.

                George and Alice finally got married in 1904



                Incidentally, at least 2 of their children attended the Berner St school, yards away from where Stride was later slain.



                And potentially even more baffling...


                On George's marriage certificate to Alice, the space between his first and last name, partially written over the words "parish Church"..it looks like he has written the words "Jack"


                Initially i thought it was the word "Alice" which has been written in the wrong place and crossed through but the word is deliberately written through the words "parish church"... strange.

                It's not even a written attempt at an abbreviation of his middle name "Frederick"

                I may of course be wrong, but it does looks like he has written "jack"

                If that is the case, why would he do that?


                He may have lived next to a prime suspect in Lechmere, had 2 children attend the Berner Street school, worked as a Ginger Beer maker and confectioner, had a brother who was imprisoned for selling dodgy water and alleged to have stolen a horse, been living unmarried with several children before marrying in later life...(okay so the latter one was only frowned upon at the time)

                but writing "Jack" on his marriage certificate?



                Bizarre


                TRD








                I wouldn’t place too much reliance on ages given on census forms. Especially when the record is for a lodger. But of course you must know that through your extensive genealogical work.
                Last edited by MrBarnett; 10-24-2020, 11:14 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by The Rookie Detective View Post

                  Don't believe this is the same Joseph Barnett due to significant age difference, but the Hostler guy is fascinating.


                  So, the Isaac Hostler you refer to was indeed a mineral water maker.

                  Well, i say 'mineral water' maker, but he was in fact a criminal who was officially convicted in 1892 for selling water under a false trademark i.e. saying it was mineral water but diluting it.

                  He was also alleged to have stolen a horse with another man and taken it to Essex, but he was found not guilty of this particular charge.


                  Isaac's brother George was the Ginger Beer Maker who lived next to Lechmere.

                  As you say, there was a Ginger Beer Manufactory at No. 2 James St.


                  Interestingly, George Hostler is listed as being married to his wife Alice, but this wasn't true.
                  They were living together and their children all born out of wedlock.

                  George and Alice finally got married in 1904



                  Incidentally, at least 2 of their children attended the Berner St school, yards away from where Stride was later slain.



                  And potentially even more baffling...


                  On George's marriage certificate to Alice, the space between his first and last name, partially written over the words "parish Church"..it looks like he has written the words "Jack"


                  Initially i thought it was the word "Alice" which has been written in the wrong place and crossed through but the word is deliberately written through the words "parish church"... strange.

                  It's not even a written attempt at an abbreviation of his middle name "Frederick"

                  I may of course be wrong, but it does looks like he has written "jack"

                  If that is the case, why would he do that?


                  He may have lived next to a prime suspect in Lechmere, had 2 children attend the Berner Street school, worked as a Ginger Beer maker and confectioner, had a brother who was imprisoned for selling dodgy water and alleged to have stolen a horse, been living unmarried with several children before marrying in later life...(okay so the latter one was only frowned upon at the time)

                  but writing "Jack" on his marriage certificate?



                  Bizarre


                  TRD








                  Well somebody has certainly written something but it's not easy to see what. The script of the word 'Parish' on the other entries shows an 'h' that looks like a capital 'A' but without the cross bar. I can make out what could be 'Jac' but nothing after that which remotely resembles a 'k'. The first letter could be 'J' but could also be 'G' and what might be a 'c' appears to have a dot over it, so more likely to be 'i'. I'm not convinced that it's 'Jack' but no doubt others with access to Ancestry will add their thoughts.
                  "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I concur with your view completely.

                    having looked at it again, it could be the name Alice, which was his wife’s name.

                    I have seen many wedding certificates where the Groom or Bride has written or attempted to write inadvertently in the wrong space and therefore it is commonplace.

                    however, the exact placement of the mystery word in question is peculiar because it isn’t written in any space provided but directly over and through the words ‘parish church’

                    i think it looks like a combination of the words ‘Alice and Jack‘

                    His middle name was Frederick which is logically the most likely place to write the mystery word. However, it certainly doesn’t say ‘Fred’

                    it could be that Alice began to sign her name but was corrected. But why she would write over other words already printed instead of in the spaces provided doesn’t make any sense, even to someone who may have been illiterate.


                    To me the word looks like “Jac”

                    normally I would then disregard the idea that it was “Jack”

                    however, the author of several letters and correspondences alleged to have been written by the ripper feature words that appear to have letters deliberately omitted from the text.


                    On that basis I would be more inclined to believe that it does say “Jac” but that it was meant to spelt without the ‘K’ at the end.




                    there is nothing linking George Hostler with any of the murders of course, apart from coincidental points like him working as a ginger beer maker (found in Millers court and specifically referenced in one of the alleged letters) 2 children who went to Berner street school and that Hostler lives next door to Charles Lechmere in 1881.


                    if the mystery word does say ‘Jac’ then I would be curious to decipher why he did it.

                    the writing style of the mystery word is identical to that of George Hostler’s written name and is clearly written by Hostler.


                    it could be; and is most likely to be nothing... but certainly peculiar at the very least.



                    TRD

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Interestingly, there was a ginger beer manufacturer called Qualtrough & Co.... does this mean Wallace was the Ripper?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
                        Interestingly, there was a ginger beer manufacturer called Qualtrough & Co.... does this mean Wallace was the Ripper?
                        Depends on who the "&co" part refers to...
                        Thems the Vagaries.....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Al Bundy's Eyes View Post

                          Depends on who the "&co" part refers to...
                          Prolly short for Cohen.
                          My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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