Dear Boss

[Stewart P Evans]

Tom

I must not be on the right track at all if Simon agrees with me. I suppose I need to rethink this. Okay, Bulling it is.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott

Tom, see the thread 'Author of Central News Identified -1891' which adds support for the Bulling/Moore belief. Another excellent find by Chris Scott.

[Tom_Wescott]

Tom, I've been thinking about it and your theory about the WVC allegedly arranging a scheme with the Lusk kidney for financial gain also fits with Le Grand's (semi-documented) schemes with the grape stalk, the flower “found“ by the sisters, the “Lodger“ and, possibly, R. Batchelor's arranged appearance at a shop as “doctor“ with a “blood dripping bag“. Do you realize that such a theory would NOT necessarily imply Le Grand as the Ripper, but simply as a petty criminal interested in financial gain? Which incidentally fits even better with Le Grand's “profile“ (and God, do I hate that term!).

I wasn't aware that anyone has prepared a 'profile' of Le Grand, but if they did they would have to conclude he was a dangerous man with homicidal tendencies. One can murder and still like money, you know. In any event, when my book comes out, some people will think he was the Ripper, some like myself will be satisfied that he is merely the best suspect to date, and some will not see him at all as the Ripper, but will be moved by other evidence, such as that Le Grand was behind the 'From hell' letter/kidney, Batty Street Lodger story, and was most likely Pipeman. Those who don't think Stride was a Ripper victim should have no trouble at least accepting Le Grand as Stride's killer. So, I'm hoping there will be something in there for everyone.

Tom, see the thread 'Author of Central News Identified -1891' which adds support for the Bulling/Moore belief. Another excellent find by Chris Scott.

Thanks, Stewart. I recall reading this some time back, but could use with a refresher. I clearly need to read more on the Best idea, because I wasn't aware that Nigel Morland played a role.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mariab]

Not that it's any of my business in any way whatsoever, but I'm convinced that it would be much cooler (and more scholarly, Sugden-like, despite Sugden's few mistakes re. Kozminsky and Stride) if the Wescott book didn't concentrate exclusively in the possibility of Le Grand being the Ripper, but somehow if the book divided the possibilites into 1) Le Grand having been Pipeman and the Ripper, 2) Le Grand having been Pipeman and NOT the Ripper, but a petty criminal scheming for financial gain and hate of the police, 3) the possibility of Schwartz's testimony having been manipulated by the IWMC, thus Pipeman having never existed. THAT would be a very scholarly and open-minded approach in a book. Of course, there will be always the people who don't accept Stride as a Ripper coup, and who would possibly accept that Le Grand possibly did JUST Stride.

Pertaining to Le Grand's so-called “profiling“ (and yes, I kinda despise that word myself), just by intuition and gut-feeling (which I'm very clear that they're not much better worth than the results of a ouija board) I'd have to line up with Fisherman and C.D. and say that the way I feel it, the Ripper was either 1) completely inexperienced with women (and here Tumblety strongly comes in as a viable suspect), 2) attained by syphilis or whatnot after encountering prostitutes. The idea that an experienced pimp, experienced both in manipulating and in attacking YOUNG prostitutes in open light might be interested in murdering OLD women appears as quite a bit atypical, but then there is 3) existing evidence that Le Grand gleefully planned to plant bombs and mutilate old women (albeit rich old women), so clearly there might have been mother-hate issues here, which completely concur with the disembowelments. I'm strictly trying to approach this from a psychiatric angle here, and I apologize for posting this on the wrong thread, but it's best if it's all kept together for once.

And a last suggestion: I have NO clue whatsoever about the bank records situation in London, but, were it possible to locate Le Grand's bank records, one might also locate his signature, and then we'd have his handwriting. (Which apparently he was capable of changing, as I've been told by Cornwell-think-alikes.) A couple years ago I've researched bank records for the 1820s in Naples (which was a HUGE, important city in early 19th century), and I've been able to locate the signatures (and thus the handwriting) of many persons of interest. I even wanna try it again for a star tenor (Adolphe Nourrit) who happened to commit suicide by jumping from his hotel balcony in Naples, similarly to good old Dr. Bond. (I have Nourrit's handwriting from letters, but it being a bit too calligraphic to be honest makes me wonder if we're dealing with a secretary here.)
I also assume that there's no point in searching for Le Grand's original threat letters to the old ladies in the London police records?
With many, many apologies for the long, chatty post.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Maria. First of all, Le Grand was not a petty criminal. Like all of the suspects, he needed to earn money to live. Because he had no conscience (unlike the known suspects) he chose to earn his money at the expense of other people. But as far as Pipeman goes, it only makes sense if he killed Stride. Both possibilities will be touched on, but of course it was for reasons that stretch outside the Stride murder that Le Grand fell under suspicion of having been the Ripper. This seems to get forgotten a lot by those who think of Le Grand as 'Wescott's suspect'. He was Scotland Yard's suspect first. And of course the Ripper had experience with women. There has never been a prostitute serial killer who wasn't himself a john. There have certainly been pimp killers. Never been a prossie killer who was a barrister, though...or a gaylord, etc.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Fisherman]

Tom W:

"of course the Ripper had experience with women. There has never been a prostitute serial killer who wasn't himself a john."

You do have a marvellous way of simplifying things, Tom! I am a bitof the reverse, and so I identify a few problems here:
1. We don´t know if the Ripper was an organized or a disorganized killer. He may have killed whatever came in his way at the wrong time.
2. We cannot be dead sure - no matter how good the suggestion is - that he targetted prostitutes. He may just have realized that they were easy prey.
3. Even if he was or had been a john, he may have been a failure sexually - and in that case, we do not know how much and what sort of "experience" he had had with women.

It would seem that you take it for granted that the Ripper had a history of paying for sex. Much as that is a very viable suggestion, it does not cover the whole spectre of possibilities, I think.

The best,
Fisherman

[Tom_Wescott]

Wow, that takes the case for most preposterous post of the day, Fish. Or at least the hour. I'd say the rest of us clearly know more than you do, if you're going to suggest the Ripper just went out mad and killed the first person to cross his path - which remarkably was always a prostitute. And then was so lucky as to not have been clearly seen or caught. Fantastic theory.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Fisherman]

I would not stretch things as far as to call it a theory of mine. My theory about you, though, is that you sometimes oversimplify. And combined with your flair for pointing out that you are never wrong, well ...

But of course, if you are trying to manouvre that pimp of yours into a more Ripperish position, who am I to stand in your way? Give me a moment, and I´ll just move

The best,
Fisherman

[mariab]

Hi Tom,
when I said “petty“ criminal, I meant as in no murders of him have been able to be identified yet, and he got busted (pun intended referring to the earlier part of this thread!) for violent acts, but not (yet?) for murder.
Have you been able to physically “identify“ BS with any of Le Grand's associates? How about with the one of them named John Tyrell or something? (Sorry, no time to look up the correct name just now.)
I'm most interested in what Jabez Balfour had to say about Le Grand, and if anything pertaining to Le Grand's arrests might have survived in the police records. Has anyone attempted searching for Le Grand's original threat letters to the old ladies in the Scotland Yard records? (Even if this is a totally newbie/Polyanna idea.) Other thoughts I was having is about people quoting a “French criminal“ suspected for the Ripper by the police (and this was also mentioned a few days ago at the Whitechapel conference). For both of this and for Ostrog I've been having suspicions that posibly the suspect meant/mixed up in these quotes might have been Le Grand.
As for the fact that there's never been a prostitute serial killer who wasn't himself a john, I totally agree, and my “problem“ with considering Le Grand was with the discrepancy between the young prostitutes he beat up and the old ones killed by the Ripper. But this discrepancy can be explained in many ways, as in, victim selection starting with weak ones (esp. if we consider Emma Smith as one of his firsts, on which he wasn't alone, but was assisted by others), plus we have evidence that he hated the guts of old (rich) ladies besides the hatred he had for young, attractive ones.
I'm positively sure that they have been gay serial killers of women, although I'm unable to quote even one. But I've heard people referring to them. Obviously it isn't the norm (as seen in Gacey, Dahmer, etc.).
Anyways, the best of lucks with your research for the book, and I really hope that you'll look up if there's evidence on Joseph Aarons on any entanglements with the police or any involvement in any schemes prior to the Lusk kidney, and also, that you get someone to research for Le Grand's handwriting. (Which I know it won't be easy at all, but one has to try.)

[D.B.Wagstaff]

Here's a thought: At what point do we classify a person "a john" or as "having experience with women"? Upon payment to a prostitute? Atempt of sex act? Completion of sex act? Does a "bad" experience count?

The problem is, of course, we all have too little information and we all have different semantics and qualifications for our terms.

[Tom_Wescott]

You mean Le Grand, hailed far and wide as the best suspect to date? No worries, plenty of room for the both of you. But your last post was just nuts and you know it. I don't know what you mean by 'oversimplify'. As for me never being wrong, I didn't say that. I've said none of the little wannabes on here, like Jon Guy, have been able to prove me wrong on these boards. And it really shouldn't be that hard to do, because I've proved myself wrong. So I think it has less to do with my omnipotence and more to do with the fact that the geeks who try to take me on don't know sh*t about the Ripper crimes in general and Berner Street inparticular.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mariab]

D.B. Wagstaff wrote:
Does a "bad" experience count?
A “bad“ experience legally counts if payment has ensued.

[mariab]

Hey Tom, you got proven wrong earlier today about Best. By noone lesser than SPE. And before you got proven wrong, you misled a newbie (me) about Best, which I'm sure can be considered as a federal offense in some parts of the world.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Maria. No, not much research has yet been done to find samples of Le Grand's handwriting. Would you like to help undertake that?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[D.B.Wagstaff]

I would assume the same. Regardless of ability to perform, quality of experience, etc. it would still be "experience".

[mariab]

Tom, about Le Grand's handwriting, I'd totally love to research that, but I'm bound in Paris, NOT in London. If I ever ended up in the UK, but it's not planned for the near future. (Incidentally I'm looking for a job in the UK, but, due to the current economic crisis, there have been no jobs advertised in the UK for what I do since about a year.)
I've heard that Le Grand claimed that he's been to France. Now that I could totally research. (That is, IF the French decide to stop their strikes/demonstrations, as currently I've been able to see the libraries' roof in spitting distance from my apartment window, but unable to get in there.) I could also try looking in ancestry.fr under Le Grand's numerous con names, but he if was there for only a brief time, it most probably won't work. Also, as I was telling to Rob Clack a little while ago, ancestry.fr features a search for censuses, but when one conducts a census search, ALL results that come out are exclusively from voting lists (featuring only people old enough to vote), and they don't look like the typical British censuses results, with an entire family listed and so on. As I was saying to Rob, either ancestry.fr isn't working at its full potential because I haven't payed and subscribed, or the French have managed to assemble a botched tool (and the latter wouldn't surprise me too much).
But if there's any way to help research Le Grand's handwriting from outside of the UK, I'd totally love to help. I have experience with identifying handwritings (both in text and music, and in all kinds of languages), although NO official credentials whatsoever in this (unlike the notorious Elaine Quigley).