An experiment

[David Orsam]

When I joined people wanted to know whether 2 women were killed by the same man on the Double Event night..highly improbable....or whether evidence suggests that the killer might change his spots after Chapman...it doesnt...

I can't help admiring how you slipped in your own answers to those questions. I guess that as you have resolved them so comprehensively no-one bothers asking about them any more.

[David Orsam]

There is no reason to surmise that the message wasnt written by someone local

On the contrary. There are plenty of possible reasons to surmise this, just as there are plenty of possible reasons to surmise that Jack the Ripper wasn't local.

He might have been a sailor.

He might have been an American (or other type of foreigner).

He might have been a member of the aristocracy.

He might have been a police officer (you owe me one there Pierre).

It might well have been written by someone local, considering that it was written by someone standing in the middle of the night in Whitechapel, but not everyone in Whitechapel in the middle of the night was a local person.

[Pierre]

[QUOTE=David Orsam;383840]On the contrary. There are plenty of possible reasons to surmise this, just as there are plenty of possible reasons to surmise that Jack the Ripper wasn't local.

He might have been a sailor.

He might have been an American (or other type of foreigner).

He might have been a member of the aristocracy.

He might have been a police officer (you owe me one there Pierre).

It might well have been written by someone local, considering that it was written by someone standing in the middle of the night in Whitechapel, but not everyone in Whitechapel in the middle of the night was a local person.

Great! You are thinking statistically.

Regards, Pierre

[David Orsam]

Great! You are thinking statistically.

Not according to the dictionary definition of the word I'm not, nor, indeed, any other definition of the word of which I am aware.

[Errata]

Not according to the dictionary definition of the word I'm not, nor, indeed, any other definition of the word of which I am aware.

Shh just go with it. The more you poke the more verbose he gets...

[Michael W Richards]

On the contrary. There are plenty of possible reasons to surmise this, just as there are plenty of possible reasons to surmise that Jack the Ripper wasn't local.

He might have been a sailor.

He might have been an American (or other type of foreigner).

He might have been a member of the aristocracy.

He might have been a police officer (you owe me one there Pierre).

It might well have been written by someone local, considering that it was written by someone standing in the middle of the night in Whitechapel, but not everyone in Whitechapel in the middle of the night was a local person.

Of course embracing any possible scenario is great entertainment, but what I referred to is the fact that there is not one scintilla of evidence that suggests that the man was not a local man, and in fact lots of evidence that suggests he knew his way around the convoluted lanes and alleys in the less than square mile the murders occurred in.

[Michael W Richards]

I can't help admiring how you slipped in your own answers to those questions. I guess that as you have resolved them so comprehensively no-one bothers asking about them any more.

After seeking evidence to the contrary since 1988 I feel ok with the position.

[Pierre]

Of course embracing any possible scenario is great entertainment, but what I referred to is the fact that there is not one scintilla of evidence that suggests that the man was not a local man, and in fact lots of evidence that suggests he knew his way around the convoluted lanes and alleys in the less than square mile the murders occurred in.

But there were also people working in Spitalfields who knew their way around there but lived somewhere else.

Regards, Pierre

[David Orsam]

Of course embracing any possible scenario is great entertainment, but what I referred to is the fact that there is not one scintilla of evidence that suggests that the man was not a local man, and in fact lots of evidence that suggests he knew his way around the convoluted lanes and alleys in the less than square mile the murders occurred in.

There is not "lots of evidence" about where the killer lived. There is only supposition that the killer knew his way round the convoluted lanes and alleys but that doesn't mean he lived in the area; he could have visited it frequently. And, in any event, we were discussing the writing on the wall. Maybe it was written by the killer and maybe not. If you are saying it was written by the killer then you are effectively saying that there is no reason to surmise that the killer lived anywhere other than Whitechapel. It's not an unreasonable theory but it's not proven. No-one knows where the killer lived, not even you.

[Bridewell]

Judges or magistrates. Remember Lord Mayor´s Day.

Pierre, it was The Lord Mayor's Show, not Lord Mayor's Day and (I'm probably going to kick myself for asking this) what is the connection between judges and/or magistrates and The Lord Mayor's Show?

[Bridewell]

But, Mort, the apron was not dropped and, perhaps, the GSG was not chalked, immediately after the Mitre Square murder. Unless Jack went and did a very short shift at a nearby horse slaughterers or committed another murder we don't know about, he may, just may, have gone somewhere to have a wash and brush up between the Mitre Square murder and scuttling along Goulston street with his little gift to the police and local Jews. Therefore his paws may have been reasonably clear of blood, or it may have dried by then.

How much scuttling time he had depends on how much credence you give to P.c. Long's timings. Personally, I think the GSG, if it was written by the killer at all, was done immediately after the Eddowes murder. If so, the simplest explanation of the apron section's presence would be that it was used by the killer to wipe his hands clean so that he could hold the chalk and write cleanly with it.

[Bridewell]

Originally Posted by Pierre :-
Lord Mayor was the Chief Magistrate of the City of London.

Pierre, forgive me; I don't know if you are actually French or just using a pseudonym.

The Lord Mayor, like the Lord Lieutenant of a County, might technically be a magistrate - but in name only. He or she would not sit in court. (Having posted that I now see Mystery Singer's post indicating that Lord Mayor Staples did sit at the Central Criminal Court, so I'll look into his life for an explanation.)

A magistrate could function as a type of judge

A magistrate did, and still does, function in this capacity. Ordinarily magistrates sit in the Lower (or Magistrates') Court and judges at the Crown Court, although magistrates do sit in the Crown Court under certain narrow circumstances.

[Bridewell]

Hi Steve,

It is very difficult to know what you mean by "directly". Could you please try some type of definition?

Regards, Pierre

I have to wonder what kind of historian doesn't understand the concept of a direct link without clarification.

[Bridewell]

Hi,

I prefer Halse in the original inquest papers, since it is the most reliable primary source.

Regards, Pierre

We agree on some things then!

[Bridewell]

Why is it more reliable than Longs?

I don't know what Pierre's explanation is but my argument would be that Halse was the man who argued most strongly for the graffito to be preserved until photographed; therefore that he was the one who attached most evidential importance to it; therefore that he is the man most likely to have recorded the content accurately. That's not proof, but it's a structured thought process I think.