An experiment

[John Wheat]

Thanks for the summary, Steve.

It all seems very tiresome.

Or total BS.

[David Orsam]

Unless the ideas were dropped- JtR came in to Mary Kelly's room through a door in the partition wall instead of through the court and the reason for killing her was indirect revenge on the Lord Mayor. Don't remember if it was indirect revenge on the office generally or Whitehead specifically.

It was Sir Polydore de Keyser who described the Ripper as a mad dog in October 1888; Alderman James Whitehead was the Lord Mayor Elect on 9 November 1888 and it was his show, or procession, that took place on that day. So, whether Pierre knows it or not, his Ripper was targeting the wrong man.

[David Orsam]

It does all get explained in some sort of lucid and logical, perfectly sane way eventually.............doesn't it?

Very funny!

I still have no idea why Pierre thinks the killer wrote that the judges were the men, or not the men, to be blamed for nothing. I don't think he's told us exactly what he thinks the killer was trying to say. It might have something to do with his apparent view that the mutilations reflected the old punishment for treason or something to do with an honour killing in India 11 years earlier but it's hard to say.

He also hasn't told us why he thinks the killer wrote "the Judges" rather than just "Judges" in general. As at 30 September 1888 the most famous group of judges in the country were Hannon, Day and Smith, the Commissioners of the Special Parnell Commission and if the killer wasn't referring to them when he wrote "the Judges" then who?

[Pierre]

Sounds about right.

He also has high level data (for whatever that eans) to support his theory, said suspect he declines to name.

H also detest writer's on the topic, though just lately I notice he quotes them a fair bit.

Hi GUT,

No. I do not quote "writer´s on the topic". I quote (mostly) primary sources in The Ultimate Jack the Ripper Sourcebook by Evans & Skinner or newspaper articles when necessary.

Regards, Pierre

[Rosella]

Gosh, I bet you're glad you purchased The Ulimate Jack the Ripper Sourcebook, by Evans and Skinner, aren't you, Pierre?

[Pierre]

[QUOTE=Rosella;374705]Gosh, I bet you're glad you purchased The Ulimate Jack the Ripper Sourcebook, by Evans and Skinner, aren't you, Pierre?

Do you think so?

Regards, Pierre

[Pierre]

You have forgotten that while totally destroying Mary's remains, he took the trouble to place her arm and hand into a position reminiscent of a picture of one of the Tudor/Elizabethan Mary's (most likely Mary I or "Bloody Mary" though it may have been Mary, Queen of Scots) and that this involved a reference to a fifth rate dramatic verse play by Lord Tennyson that I forced myself to read to try to figure out what was going on. With all this in my mind I have kept from responding to Pierre's threads most of the last few weeks, which are proliferating again.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

But perhaps we should also mention the good work of Richardh: http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=9399

Regards, Pierre

[Abby Normal]

Thanks for the summary, Steve.

It all seems very tiresome.

According to Pierre
The killer also knew Thomas bowyer.

And the killer was well known then but not now, whatever that means.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Slightly off topic, but in terms of what the writing means it's clear to me.

I grew up in a working class environment, in a certain part of England, where old habits die hard and so it is not uncommon up here to hear phrases, idioms, colloquialisms, sub-standard grammar; which died out a while back in other parts of the country.

The line: "will not be blamed for nothing" makes perfect sense to me and reasonably has only one meaning.

When I was growing up my Grandma would say: "you're not getting wrong for nothing". 'Getting wrong' means being told off up here. What she meant was: "you're being told off because you deserve it/have done something wrong". She also used to say: "you won't be told" - meaning even though you have done something wrong you won't hear it.

It makes absolutely no sense to say: "The Jews are not the men who will be blamed for nothing". On the other hand: "The Jews are the men who will not be blamed for nothing" is something that makes sense to me being from a Working Class background.

It means the Jews somehow escape blame even though they deserve blame.

Not that I think the writing has anything to do with the murders, I don't. I think someone held a grievance. Interestingly, whomever wrote it didn't claim: "The Jews are the people...." which to me would be logical in the event of a general problem with "the Jews".

[Geddy2112]

When I was growing up my Grandma would say: "you're not getting wrong for nothing". 'Getting wrong' means being told off up here. What she meant was: "you're being told off because you deserve it/have done something wrong". She also used to say: "you won't be told" - meaning even though you have done something wrong you won't hear it.

Excellent I like it, and I presume you are possibly from the North East of England like myself as what you say make perfect sense...

[Elamarna]

Fleetwood Mac

Londoner myself, such things were still said in my youth, and agree entirely with your interpretation of both what the GSG meant, and who wrote it

regards

Steve

[Mayerling]

Hi Jeff,

But perhaps we should also mention the good work of Richardh: http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=9399

Regards, Pierre

Interesting, but hardly meriting re-discovering the "pleasures" of the failed career of Lord Tennyson as a dramatist. And I don't like looking at the photos of poor Mary - they are very gruesome.

Please also, Pierre, in future do not use that irritating and pompous "Dark lettering" with me. I never appreciated it either.

Jeff

[Mayerling]

Fleetwood Mac

Londoner myself, such things were still said in my youth, and agree entirely with your interpretation of both what the GSG meant, and who wrote it

regards

Steve

Most likely the correct interpretation if the GSG was by a local. That possible sentiment was widespread in the 19th Century all over the globe, and still raises it's head (unfortunately) today.

Jeff

[GUT]

Well I'm an Aussie and it means the same Thing to me.

[GUT]

Fleetwood Mac

Londoner myself, such things were still said in my youth, and agree entirely with your interpretation of both what the GSG meant, and who wrote it

regards

Steve

Not sure why the quote didn't work above.