An experiment

[c.d.]

Hello Rosella,

The problem is that if you go by location of the murders, you can probably find a connection to different ethnic groups if you look hard enough.

As for the GSG, we don't know if Jack did in fact write it or whether it was meant to be pro Jewish or anti Jewish. And there is always the possibility that Jack was Jewish and wanted to set the police on a false trail.

Sorry, I just don't see the finger pointing anywhere in particular. Just my opinion.

c.d.

[Rosella]

Well, that's what we're all here for isn't it, just to explore different possibilities!

[GUT]

Hello Rosella,

The problem is that if you go by location of the murders, you can probably find a connection to different ethnic groups if you look hard enough.

As for the GSG, we don't know if Jack did in fact write it or whether it was meant to be pro Jewish or anti Jewish. And there is always the possibility that Jack was Jewish and wanted to set the police on a false trail.

Sorry, I just don't see the finger pointing anywhere in particular. Just my opinion.

c.d.

I so agree.

[c.d.]

Well, that's what we're all here for isn't it, just to explore different possibilities!

Yep.

c.d.

[GUT]

Well, that's what we're all here for isn't it, just to explore different possibilities!

Yep and it's half the interest.

In my opinion anyway.

[Elamarna]

Hi all,

Pierre's view of the GSG, putting the word Juwes, aside for one moment, is that:

"But the text is referring to two groups of men: Those who will not take the blame and those who should be blamed."


I would be interest to know if people agree or disagree with this interpretation of the GSG?

regards

steve

[GUT]

Hi all,

Pierre's view of the GSG, putting the word Juwes, aside for one moment, is that:

"But the text is referring to two groups of men: Those who will not take the blame and those who should be blamed."


I would be interest to know if people agree or disagree with this interpretation of the GSG?

regards

steve

Easy question Steve, disagree.

[Elamarna]

Easy question Steve, disagree.

should of said I disagree with that interpretation too.

[Rosella]

I disagree with it too.

[Mayerling]

Sought of like an interpretation based on having one's cake and eating it too. It goes in both directions at once.

[GUT]

Sought of like an interpretation based on having one's cake and eating it too. It goes in both directions at once.

I like cake, but like eating it more

[Mayerling]

Why bother with ethnic groups indeed, Pierre. Except--Polly Nichols was murdered quite near an old, abandoned Jewish cemetery, Liz Stride on the premises of a working men's club where Jews gathered to debate and socialise, and Kate Eddowes near to the Imperial Club in Duke St.

If Jack was a Gentile, and I agree we are never likely to know, IMO this points to a man who, like many Whitechapel locals, intensely disliked Jews. In fact he may well have been anti-Semitic in his intent to throw suspicion on Jews for these murders in the hope of starting riots that would injure them and their property.

On the night of the double event I don't think he could have pointed the finger any more clearly, (the Workingmen's club, the semi-literate message, the apron thrown in the entry to a Jewish dwelling, the Imperial club from which he'd seen Lawende and co. emerge) if he had thrown Eddowes' body on the steps of the Bevis Marks synagogue itself.

Hi Rosella,

I was just thinking of the intensely anti-Semitic "Jack" hoping to start riots in the East End injuring Jews and their property. In 1887 there had been a degree of anti-Semitism that "blossomed" due to the Israel Lipski poisoning case, and (oddly enough) the bigots did not bother noting that Miriam Angel, the victim in that case, was also Jewish. They did not seem to care about their own inconsistent viewpoints.

But I was also considering rioting in the East End. There had been serious anti-Semitic riots in the 18th Century, but while no doubt anti-Semitism could flare up no riots that I know of happened again in the East End. The next time rioting occurred in London (and all England for that matter) against foreigners, it was against Germans in 1914 or so, when the public reacted to the Great War with a wave of violence against German businessmen and their shops. Some of these people might have been of Jewish ancestry too, but they were being looked at as enemy aliens who were Germans.

One has to go forward to the 1930s for riots against Jews in the East End c. 1936 or so, and mostly due to the activities of Sir Oswald Mosley's "New Party", his British Fascist Union that had several marches that went through heavily Jewish neighborhoods, inviting clashes - Mosley's goons were good as provocateurs, claiming their rights to free speech was threatened by these aliens who sought to commit trouble for their own reasons [as I write this out I keep thinking of a certain current American politician running for President and his goons making similar claims of protecting their rights to free speech; I am no admirer of Sir Oswald at all, but it strikes me he had more style].

The point is that a single comment on a wall about the Jews or "Juwes" might remind anti-Semites of their own opinions, but it would hardly - by itself - cause massive rioting. A full campaign of hate directed at the Jews or any group has to develop due to current political or historical events (Britain fighting Germany in World War I) or by the guiding scheming of a political mind (Mosley's campaign of hate). Had there been a series of graffiti like this, sought of like a "Kilroy was here" for anti-Semites, it might have been effective. Possibly if the writer aimed at such an effect he was thinking of the double event being capped by the graffiti (or the entire series of killings). If so it fell flat, and I'm not sure that Warren's erasing the graffiti would have been the only reason it did fall flat.

Jeff

[Mayerling]

I like cake, but like eating it more

Chocolate cream for me (Boston cream pie sounds good too). My waist line says I don't need it (and my lack of baking ability says I can't knead it either!).

Jeff

[GUT]

Chocolate cream for me (Boston cream pie sounds good too). My waist line says I don't need it (and my lack of baking ability says I can't knead it either!).

Jeff

Not a fan of chocolate cake, funny love chocolate itself.

Don't think I've ever had Boston Cream Pie. Now lemon meringue pie is one of my favorites. My waist sure doesn't need it either. Last year tried Key Lim Pie it wasn't bad.

Now Pavlova (not really a cake but still) or Lamingtons. Mmmmmmmmmm

[GUT]

Hi Rosella,

I was just thinking of the intensely anti-Semitic "Jack" hoping to start riots in the East End injuring Jews and their property. In 1887 there had been a degree of anti-Semitism that "blossomed" due to the Israel Lipski poisoning case, and (oddly enough) the bigots did not bother noting that Miriam Angel, the victim in that case, was also Jewish. They did not seem to care about their own inconsistent viewpoints.

But I was also considering rioting in the East End. There had been serious anti-Semitic riots in the 18th Century, but while no doubt anti-Semitism could flare up no riots that I know of happened again in the East End. The next time rioting occurred in London (and all England for that matter) against foreigners, it was against Germans in 1914 or so, when the public reacted to the Great War with a wave of violence against German businessmen and their shops. Some of these people might have been of Jewish ancestry too, but they were being looked at as enemy aliens who were Germans.

One has to go forward to the 1930s for riots against Jews in the East End c. 1936 or so, and mostly due to the activities of Sir Oswald Mosley's "New Party", his British Fascist Union that had several marches that went through heavily Jewish neighborhoods, inviting clashes - Mosley's goons were good as provocateurs, claiming their rights to free speech was threatened by these aliens who sought to commit trouble for their own reasons [as I write this out I keep thinking of a certain current American politician running for President and his goons making similar claims of protecting their rights to free speech; I am no admirer of Sir Oswald at all, but it strikes me he had more style].

The point is that a single comment on a wall about the Jews or "Juwes" might remind anti-Semites of their own opinions, but it would hardly - by itself - cause massive rioting. A full campaign of hate directed at the Jews or any group has to develop due to current political or historical events (Britain fighting Germany in World War I) or by the guiding scheming of a political mind (Mosley's campaign of hate). Had there been a series of graffiti like this, sought of like a "Kilroy was here" for anti-Semites, it might have been effective. Possibly if the writer aimed at such an effect he was thinking of the double event being capped by the graffiti (or the entire series of killings). If so it fell flat, and I'm not sure that Warren's erasing the graffiti would have been the only reason it did fall flat.

Jeff

A few more clues and I would be really interested in a theory that he was trying to start a riot.