Originally posted by Phil Carter
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[QUOTE=Pierre;373402]Originally posted by Elamarna View PostPierre
Many thanks for saying nice things, however , I must now inform you of a fact and add a few comments.
Sorry to disillusion you my friend, there was no out of the box thinking involved, finding Judges required nothing on my part.
I just followed the instruction you gave.
So a word starting JU ending ES, that criteria was put them into a search engine, Judges was one of a handful of words which could refer to men in the results. others were Jutes, Juries and Jupes.
You mean that you used a computer. It often helps. But did you use a dictionary?
I didnīt but I wanted to see what happened (and still do) when you forget about jew-s. And you say that you "looked at the options". How did you do that?
That is a police officer, who feels wronged, whose disclosure could damage various institutions and who had a problem with the establishment..
in addition
Not "feeling of guilt" but guilt as a synonym for blame to be correct, Steve. So since the word "Blamed" is in the text, what is your view of this word and its connection to the judges compared to a connection to the jews?
It was therefore either Juries or Judges, I suggested JUDGES and at that point opted out.
My dear friend your entire thread is based on the idea the We do not understand the GSG,
in post 110 you said
"Because no one has managed to give a plausible explanation."
again in post 141 you said
"I have never seen a plausible explanation and I guess that must be because I have high demands on an explanation".
My definition of the word "understand" differs from many others.
Yes, but you did well outside of the box.
What do you think about that?
Honestly I do not know, but I choose to believe the second option until someone proves otherwise.
Sure. I do not accept them as plausible since I have a responsibility as a researcher to understand the GSG as long as it is discussed in connection to the case. Historical sources are not allowed to be overlooked or misunderstood. So one must try with all means necessary to analyse and interpret them. That is my first motivation. The second is that this GSG is very problematic from the point of view of history and linguistics. So it is interesting and worth analysing.
Both those suggestion have more to back them than this experiment at blue sky thinking.
Really? What is that?
Regards, Pierre
Regarding the word "blamed". As I've now pointed out to you several times, this word makes perfect sense, from an historical perspective, if we accept the "disputed" word in the text as being "Jews". Contrastingly, "judges" makes no sense at all in this context.
Forgive me Pierre, but I think it obvious that you have settled on a suspect who is a major public figure. Therefore, regrettably, you are not considering this problem objectively: I believe you wish the word to be "judges" because, as the judiciary is part of the establishment, as is your suspect, this interpretation fits in better with your overall theory, although clearly not with the evidence.
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Originally posted by David Orsam View PostHi Phil, what are you saying the significance of that is?
To be totally honest..I don't know.
But if pushed..I'd say the writing was written in better light.
Neat joined together writing that small is very hard in semi darkness..If there was any light available at all.
It increases the possibility. .In my view..of the writing having been written earlier..when..I'd do not know..but certainly with more light available.
You see..It looks..eats the word...composed?..as in..calmly written.
Ye olde killer would not be calm. Pulse racing..on the lookout for anyone coming along. .All ears and eyes open..This guy would have to be very very attuned ,or all possible sounds and write very quickly
That message looks calm and composed to me 3/4" high.
That's really tight with chalk.
But..I really don't know..its a hard one to judge properly
PhilChelsea FC. TRUE BLUE. 💙
Justice for the 96 = achieved
Accountability? ....
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Originally posted by David Orsam View PostHi Phil, what are you saying the significance of that is?
It was a small message.
This also gives a higher probability that it was not correctly interpreted.
And a higher probability that the killer was able to write (and mutilate) under difficult circumstances. So why would he not be able to spell correctly?
Regards, PierreLast edited by Pierre; 03-11-2016, 12:26 PM.
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Originally posted by Pierre View PostThis also gives a higher probability that is was not correct interpreted.
"is was" is also a problem but nothing wrong with the spelling.
See how easy it is? And you are not writing on a public wall in the middle of the night.
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Originally posted by David Orsam View PostYou've done it again there Pierre. A perfectly spelt sentence apart from one word. "correct" should be "correctly".
"is was" is also a problem but nothing wrong with the spelling.
See how easy it is? And you are not writing on a public wall in the middle of the night.
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Originally posted by Pierre View PostIt was a small message.
This also gives a higher probability that is was not correctly interpreted.Last edited by David Orsam; 03-11-2016, 12:37 PM.
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Originally posted by Pierre View PostAre you a school teacher now?
There is nothing odd about it. It happens.
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Originally posted by David Orsam View PostUsing the logic that it is strange that the writer only misspelt one word, the same logic applies that it would be strange that all the readers of the message only misread one word when they had no problem reading the rest of the sentence.
And I am not using the logic that it was strange that the readers only misread one word. I am using the logic of the actual reading conditions:
It was dark, the wall had a rough surface and the size of the writing was small.
Therefore, it is not strange that the readers misinterpreted one word. It is only logical.
Regards, Pierre
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Originally posted by Pierre View PostAs I have said previously, this means that it was no ordinary propaganda style graffiti.
It was a small message.
This also gives a higher probability that it was not correctly interpreted.
And a higher probability that the killer was able to write (and mutilate) under difficult circumstances. So why would he not be able to spell correctly?
Regards, Pierre
And, as I keep noting, we cannot even be sure that English was the first language of the author, particularly as the locality had a large immigrant population.
In any event, David's analysis is correct: the word isn't "judges".Last edited by John G; 03-11-2016, 12:59 PM.
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Originally posted by Pierre View Post
It was dark, the wall had a rough surface and the size of the writing was small.
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Originally posted by Pierre View PostTherefore, it is not strange that the readers misinterpreted one word. It is only logical."You can rob me, you can starve me and you can beat me and you can kill me. Just don't bore me."
Clint Eastwood as Gunny in "Heartbreak Ridge"
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Originally posted by David Orsam View PostI really do hope you are not querying whether Sir Charles Warren, Superintendent Arnold and others saw the writing on the wall Pierre. If you would care to consult the primary sources reproduced in chapter 9 of the Ultimate Sourcebook you will see a report to the Home Office by Sir Charles Warren dated 6 November 1888 in which the Commissioner says that he went to Goulston Street to see the writing on the wall when it was just getting light and that:
"There were several Police around the spot when I arrived, both Metropolitan and City".
Sir Charles had already reported in writing to the Home Office on 11 October 1888 that the writing on the wall read "The Juwes are the men That will Not be Blamed for nothing"
In a separate reported dated 6 November 1888, Superintendent Arnold stated that: "An Inspector was present by my directions with a sponge for the purpose of removing the writing when the Commissioner arrived on the scene".
Further, a report by Inspector McWilliam of the City Police dated 27 October 1888 recorded that Detectives Halse, Lawley and Hunt all went to Goulston Street, at which point Halse remained by the writing and Lawley and Hunt returned to Mitre Square where they informed McWilliam of the writing on the wall which McWilliam later ordered to be photographed. McWilliam recorded the words on the wall to be "The Jewes are the men that will not be blamed for nothing".
You will appreciate, therefore, that there is solid evidence from unimpeachable primary sources that more officers than just Long and Halse saw the writing on the wall. Everyone who saw it believed it be referring to the Jews.
I'm sorry Pierre but these are the facts.
The earliest and most reliable sources give the same word "Juwes".
And it doesnīt matter if people believed it was a text about the Jews. History has proven that people in the past believe the wrong things. Often.
And donīt say that you "are sorry". You are not sorry. You only want to prove me wrong. That is your main interest. But I donīt care fore that. You only waste your time. The "truth" (if you believe in that) lies not in what you say, David. It lies in the sources.
Regards, Pierre
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Originally posted by Pierre View PostDavid, the point is that it doesnīt matter if a number of policemen saw it - if they did not make any transcriptions.
The earliest and most reliable sources give the same word "Juwes".
And it doesnīt matter if people believed it was a text about the Jews. History has proven that people in the past believe the wrong things. Often.
And donīt say that you "are sorry". You are not sorry. You only want to prove me wrong. That is your main interest. But I donīt care fore that. You only waste your time. The "truth" (if you believe in that) lies not in what you say, David. It lies in the sources.
Regards, PierreG U T
There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.
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