6th October letter

[jerryd]

Thank you R.J.

Yes, that is interesting. As we all know, it's hard to give much thought to some/any of the letters received in this case. The October 6th postcard was different for what I'm looking at and had similarities to Dear Boss and Saucy Jack. If a note like that is found lying in a street in Croydon, it shines a different light. But, it wasn't found in Croydon so that becomes a dead end.

[rjpalmer]

I don't know much about this letter. Apparently, it was NOT the letter found in Croydon on the street. I guess the Casebook wiki got that part wrong and another website that states it was clear to see in the National Archives it was found in Croydon. As Gareth and RJ have pointed out from the book Letters from Hell, an October 5, 1888 missive was found in the street between Selhurst Station and Princess Road, Croydon and addressed to the Gipsy Hill Police Inspector.

I was interested in the letter IF it was found in Croydon at the location stated. It would have explained a lot, actually. Maybe even a possible motive for the Alice McKenzie murder. Again, IF the letter was postmarked or not would implicate two possible directions for research into a link to the murderer's identification. The October 5th missive is still interesting, but doesn't have the same implications, really.

Hi Jerry.

I don't know if this will interest you, but the Croydon Guardian received a 'Ripper' letter on Monday, October 15th, as reported on the 20th.

[jerryd]

Is there any information on who found the letter or how it ended up in the official files?

I don't know much about this letter. Apparently, it was NOT the letter found in Croydon on the street. I guess the Casebook wiki got that part wrong and another website that states it was clear to see in the National Archives it was found in Croydon. As Gareth and RJ have pointed out from the book Letters from Hell, an October 5, 1888 missive was found in the street between Selhurst Station and Princess Road, Croydon and addressed to the Gipsy Hill Police Inspector.

I was interested in the letter IF it was found in Croydon at the location stated. It would have explained a lot, actually. Maybe even a possible motive for the Alice McKenzie murder. Again, IF the letter was postmarked or not would implicate two possible directions for research into a link to the murderer's identification. The October 5th missive is still interesting, but doesn't have the same implications, really.

[Aethelwulf]

Good thing some of us have things like science that supports our theories too.

You should work on that.

Ha ha well I was angling for a bite and seems I landed a fine minnow!

[erobitha]

Don’t know whether that is significant - wouldn't want to hang an entire theory on a single letter or anything....

Good thing some of us have things like science that supports our theories too.

You should work on that.

[Fiver]

The interesting thing I see about this postcard is where it was found. It was found on the ground in Croydon between Princess Road and Selhurst Railway Station. The question is, was it actually sent to the person intended, or did the writer get cold feet before sending it and discard it? Or, did the intended person receive it and discard it taking the advice of the author?

Is there any information on who found the letter or how it ended up in the official files?

[jerryd]

See pg. 224 of Letters from Hell. He's got the wrong letter.

The missive dated, Friday 5 October, and found between Princess Road and Selhurst Railway Station was addressed to "Inspector, Police St[ation]: Gipsey Hill" and read:

A WARNING
At midnight--a woman will be murdered at the High Level St.
Be on your guard
Leather - Apron


The letter being discussed was dated 6 October 1888, but was received (stamped) on 8 October.

Thank you both!

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

You ventured to guess that Anderson's witness was the same Joseph Hyam Levy in # 6 of The Seaside Home: Could Schwartz or Lawende Have Put the Ripper's Neck in a Noose?

I pointed out in # 493 of the same thread that Levy could not have been Anderson's witness:

We are asked to believe that he pretended not to recognise the suspect, nor to have got a good look at him, then admitted he did get a good look, then identified him, and only then, on learning (Anderson's word) that the suspect was Jewish, or (Swanson) that the suspect was also a Jew, refused to testify against him, even though he had known all along that the suspect [allegedly a relative of his] was Jewish.

In spite of being reminded of this refutation of your suggestion, you have never even replied.

I refer also to # 497 of the same thread, in which I posed the following question:

Anderson was definite that the witness did not recognise the suspect as being Jewish and that it was only on learning that the person he had identified was Jewish that he refused to testify against him.

Can you please explain why Levy would have needed to be reminded that his relative, whom he is alleged to have recognised in Duke Street, was Jewish?



I refer also to your dissertation An Alternate Kosminski Suspect and Police Witness: Some Perspectives and Points to Ponder

at

https://www.casebook.org/dissertations/kosfinal.html

from which I quote:


I suggest ... evidence came to light indicating that either Kosminski may have been involved in the Coles killing, or that (more likely) the police learned from Lawende that Levy knew the Kosminski family... Levy is then tracked down and reluctantly taken to the Seaside Home to identify Kosminski. He fails to give evidence against Kosminski.


You make the same mistake of thinking it possible that Anderson's witness could have known the suspect before he saw him in Church Passage.

I note that in the same article, instead of accepting that Kosminski could not have committed the murder of Frances Coles, you hypothesise that a different Kosminski killed Coles and that Aaron was involved in the earlier murders, with Swanson considering the murder of Coles as the last in the series.

Having two Kosminskis murdering women in London when there is not a shred of evidence that anyone called Kosminski ever murdered anyone goes well with your implied suggestion that Joseph Hyam Levy had to be reminded that someone already known to him was Jewish.

[Aethelwulf]

Something I noticed about this letter is the way the O of October is written with a line down through the middle is identical to the O of October in the 10th October 'up goes the sponge' letter (https://forum.casebook.org/forum/rip...t-10-10-letter (letter in post #4). Don't know whether that is significant - wouldn't want to hang an entire theory on a single letter or anything....

[Aethelwulf]

Hi Aethelwulf.

I don't think it's too literal. Hopefully I can add more in the near future. Thanks for starting the thread topic, btw.

Sounds interesting. I'm still inclined to think this one is genuine and was meant for Marshall. Also suggests the ripper could have been with stride for a good while before the incident that Schwartz saw. Perhaps all his hard work had got him nowhere and his frustration came out.

[rjpalmer]

Hello again Jerry

Just dug out my copy of Letters From Hell, which confirms that it was post-marked 8th October in the London NW district. It also adds that the letter was contained in the MEPO 3/142 file "with no other comment", so I don't know where Eddleston got the info that it was found discarded in Croydon, nor indeed why he gave it a different MEPO file number.

I've got Eddleston's book - somewhere! - and I'd have checked that, if only I'd found it. It's a pretty decent book, as I recall, but not infallible. I note that the book review here on Casebook points out at least one error relating to a "Ripper" letter, albeit not the one being discussed here.

See pg. 224 of Letters from Hell. He's got the wrong letter.

The missive dated, Friday 5 October, and found between Princess Road and Selhurst Railway Station was addressed to "Inspector, Police St[ation]: Gipsey Hill" and read:

A WARNING
At midnight--a woman will be murdered at the High Level St.
Be on your guard
Leather - Apron


The letter being discussed was dated 6 October 1888, but was received (stamped) on 8 October.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi again Gareth.

Apparently the National Archives has the file on the postcard (Mepo 3/142/139). Someone who accessed that archive (I believe it was an author named Eddleston) indicated the postcard was found on the ground in Croydon, as I stated earlier. Only one side of it is presented. The writing side. How do we know it had a postmark of October 8th? I don't have a copy of Letters From Hell by Evans handy, what did he say about this postcard?

Hello again Jerry

Just dug out my copy of Letters From Hell, which confirms that it was post-marked 8th October in the London NW district. It also adds that the letter was contained in the MEPO 3/142 file "with no other comment", so I don't know where Eddleston got the info that it was found discarded in Croydon, nor indeed why he gave it a different MEPO file number.

I've got Eddleston's book - somewhere! - and I'd have checked that, if only I'd found it. It's a pretty decent book, as I recall, but not infallible. I note that the book review here on Casebook points out at least one error relating to a "Ripper" letter, albeit not the one being discussed here.

[jerryd]

Interesting idea but perhaps it's taking it a bit too literally.

Hi Aethelwulf.

I don't think it's too literal. Hopefully I can add more in the near future. Thanks for starting the thread topic, btw.

[jerryd]

^^

Agreed. Also, although it was dated 6th October, I believe it was post-marked (in Northwest London) on the 8th. Either the author back-dated the letter a day or two after reading the papers, or (s)he wasn't in a particular hurry to post it. Both alternatives militate against its actually being written by the killer, I'd suggest.

Hi again Gareth.

Apparently the National Archives has the file on the postcard (Mepo 3/142/139). Someone who accessed that archive (I believe it was an author named Eddleston) indicated the postcard was found on the ground in Croydon, as I stated earlier. Only one side of it is presented. The writing side. How do we know it had a postmark of October 8th? I don't have a copy of Letters From Hell by Evans handy, what did he say about this postcard?

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

James Monro following his resignation as Metropolitan Police Commissioner, November 1890 stated:


“The police had nothing positive in the way of clues about the identity of the Ripper.”

No definitely ascertained facts, then?