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Artizan Dwellings writing photograph

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  • #61
    Thanks Rob.

    Batman, the message "I am going to do one on the 27th [of October]" can only refer to a future victim surely?

    I am personally leaning towards chalk writing, next to victims, being a signature of JtR. One that has over time been clouded by misinformation and lack of surviving knowledge about them, the Eddowes one being virtually unknown for 100+ years. Chapmans scene had chalk writing too apparently. And in Chapman's case, the number of claimed victims by the writer is a greater number than known in canon, even if you add Tabram. It would have been rather odd for a trickster to have claimed, in chalk, that a high number of victims would be found in the future when Chapman was only no.2. Jack wouldn't even have attained serial-killer status at that point. So who could really have known that the number was to get higher at this early stage? Most likely the killer I would say.

    From dissertations page:
    One of the earliest reports of chalked wall writing occurs not long after the murder of Annie Chapman, who was found in the back yard of 29 Hanbury Street. Hours after her murder The Echo, Saturday 8 September 1888 reported:

    THE “WRITING ON THE WALL”

    It is currently reported in Hanbury-street that this morning the following paragraph, written in chalk, was seen upon the wall of one of the back gardens there, and four persons distinctly stated they had actually seen the writing. The words are, “I have now done three, and intend to do nine more and give myself up, and at the same time give my reasons for doing the murders.” Whether there is any truth in the matter remains to be seen.


    Notice the "Whether there is any truth in the matter remains to be seen" at the end. It's a cautious article, not a hyped one intended to sell papers like so many ended up being. A cautious article which claims four locals distinctly stated they had seen it.

    To me, the article does not smell of BS at all, pardon my French.
    Last edited by TizerisT; 02-06-2015, 10:50 AM.

    Comment


    • #62
      It begs the question also: Could police have missed a chalk message in Millers Court? In the long stretch of time between Kellys murder and being found, did someone, ie a landlord or whatever, see some messy chalk writing in the archway and remove it? It would only take saliva and a rag, and a few seconds.
      Furthermore, could Tabrams death scene have had chalk writing that was missed?

      Comment


      • #63
        “I have now done three, and intend to do nine more and give myself up, and at the same time give my reasons for doing the murders.”

        This seems awfully long for a chalked message.

        Comment


        • #64
          That's what I thought. I think it may have originally been something like “I have now done three, nine more" and the rest possibly exaggeration.

          Comment


          • #65
            I see no point in photographing the writing. Taking an accurate account of their wording - maybe.
            Phil, you've answered your own question. The officers who noted the wording of the graffito differed in their transcripts; therefore there was no accurate account made - because some of those present (& we don't know which) didn't make an accurate record. A photograph would have resolved the discrepancy. That was the point of taking a photograph.

            Police officers don't (at least they shouldn't) decide what is likely to be evidence and obliterate/destroy the rest. They preserve everything they can which might be of relevance because it cannot be done retrospectively.
            "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

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            • #66
              Originally posted by TizerisT View Post
              It begs the question also: Could police have missed a chalk message in Millers Court? In the long stretch of time between Kellys murder and being found, did someone, ie a landlord or whatever, see some messy chalk writing in the archway and remove it? It would only take saliva and a rag, and a few seconds.
              Furthermore, could Tabrams death scene have had chalk writing that was missed?
              Could have.

              But absolutely no evidence to support it.

              I know I know that pesky evidence.
              G U T

              There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

              Comment


              • #67
                THE “WRITING ON THE WALL”

                It is currently reported in Hanbury-street that this morning the following paragraph, written in chalk, was seen upon the wall of one of the back gardens there, and four persons distinctly stated they had actually seen the writing. The words are, “I have now done three, and intend to do nine more and give myself up, and at the same time give my reasons for doing the murders.” Whether there is any truth in the matter remains to be seen.

                Notice the "Whether there is any truth in the matter remains to be seen" at the end. It's a cautious article, not a hyped one intended to sell papers like so many ended up being. A cautious article which claims four locals distinctly stated they had seen it.

                To me, the article does not smell of BS at all, pardon my French.
                But as the report says and you acknowledge "Whether there is any truth in the matter remains to be seen."
                G U T

                There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

                Comment


                • #68
                  3+9=12

                  I'll entertain the 12 idea for a moment and #3 being Chapman. If Chapman is #3 then Nichols was #2 and Tabram #1. Stride #4, Eddowes #5, Kelly #6. 6 more left in that prediction. Mylett #7. McKenzie #8. Coles #9. 3 left... George Chapman poisoned 3 wives. That's 12.

                  Anyone else want a go?
                  Bona fide canonical and then some.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    I believe there was another, similar message, written by a man who worked in advertising :

                    "I have now done up to THREE, and I could do up to NINE more and then give myself up, with a chance to explain up to TWENTY reasons for the murders."

                    There then followed lots of very small writing, in which only the words 'super sawaway torsos' could be deciphered.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      I think I might have a handwriting match

                      Originally posted by Monty View Post
                      Hello all,

                      With thanks to Stephen Ryder, our article entitled The Victims Photographs and some Wall Writing, which appeared in Ripperologist Issue 127 is now available on the Dissertations page for your reading.

                      http://casebook.org/dissertations/rip-wallwriting.html

                      It was always our intention to present this, and the Eddowes photograph find, to the community in hopes it will spark debate and research, and maybe bring new information to these discoveries.

                      Any questions for us regarding these items can be placed here and we will answer them honestly. Any queries or clarification will be adressed as best we can.

                      Likewise, if anyone has any more information to add to this topic please feel free to place it here on this thread. The idea is to progress this as best we can, as a collective, if you are curious enough to do so of course.

                      With that, we leave you with THE photo of the Artizan Dwellings wall writing.

                      Regards

                      Neil & Rob
                      Hi,

                      first I would like to thank Neil and Rob for publishing this.



                      This, to my knowledge, is the only photograph of a graffito written by someone calling himself Jac(k the Ripper).

                      The graffito may have been written on the night of the double event, about 1-2 minutes walk from Goulston Street.

                      I have found some specific similarities between this handwriting and the handwriting of the person I believe to be the murderer and would estimate that there is as rather high possibility that he wrote it. The similarities is a perfect match.

                      The source that I have contains a few letters and therefore I will have to make more comparisons from another sample, which I will try to get hold of as soon as possible.

                      I think the reliability of this data source is not very high. First of all, we are not certain about the time of the writing. And we do not know why no murder takes place on the 27th. One hypothesis for this is that he had not planned the murder on Kelly at the time of the double event and later did not want to risk being caught before Lord Mayor´s Day. Therefore he must have changed the date (only my hypothesis).

                      Another interesting aspect of the graffito is that the journalists might have gotten the name "Jack the Ripper" from this source if it was written on the night of the double event, since it was then produced before the "dear boss" letter.

                      Regards Pierre

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Pierre View Post
                        Hi,

                        first I would like to thank Neil and Rob for publishing this.



                        This, to my knowledge, is the only photograph of a graffito written by someone calling himself Jac(k the Ripper).

                        The graffito may have been written on the night of the double event, about 1-2 minutes walk from Goulston Street.

                        I have found some specific similarities between this handwriting and the handwriting of the person I believe to be the murderer and would estimate that there is as rather high possibility that he wrote it. The similarities is a perfect match.

                        The source that I have contains a few letters and therefore I will have to make more comparisons from another sample, which I will try to get hold of as soon as possible.

                        I think the reliability of this data source is not very high. First of all, we are not certain about the time of the writing. And we do not know why no murder takes place on the 27th. One hypothesis for this is that he had not planned the murder on Kelly at the time of the double event and later did not want to risk being caught before Lord Mayor´s Day. Therefore he must have changed the date (only my hypothesis).

                        Another interesting aspect of the graffito is that the journalists might have gotten the name "Jack the Ripper" from this source if it was written on the night of the double event, since it was then produced before the "dear boss" letter.


                        that is, if that letter is written by a journalist
                        Regards Pierre

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          27th of which month?

                          'Jack the Ripper' was in common usage after the receipt of the Dear Boss letter, whilst this graffiti was reported on in 1891.

                          So that is the time frame for this piece of writing.

                          Monty




                          Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                          http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Cheers, Neil.
                            Best Wishes,
                            Hunter
                            ____________________________________________

                            When evidence is not to be had, theories abound. Even the most plausible of them do not carry conviction- London Times Nov. 10.1888

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Monty View Post
                              Hello all,

                              With thanks to Stephen Ryder, our article entitled The Victims Photographs and some Wall Writing, which appeared in Ripperologist Issue 127 is now available on the Dissertations page for your reading.

                              http://casebook.org/dissertations/rip-wallwriting.html

                              It was always our intention to present this, and the Eddowes photograph find, to the community in hopes it will spark debate and research, and maybe bring new information to these discoveries.

                              Any questions for us regarding these items can be placed here and we will answer them honestly. Any queries or clarification will be adressed as best we can.

                              Likewise, if anyone has any more information to add to this topic please feel free to place it here on this thread. The idea is to progress this as best we can, as a collective, if you are curious enough to do so of course.

                              With that, we leave you with THE photo of the Artizan Dwellings wall writing.

                              Regards

                              Neil & Rob
                              Why are you spelling it as artisan with a z? This is a British crime! If you can't even get that right.....

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by EmaEm View Post
                                Why are you spelling it as artisan with a z? This is a British crime! If you can't even get that right.....
                                Same reason you posted this.

                                To be awkward.

                                Monty




                                Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                                http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                                Comment

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