CoL Police find photo of graffito? - NOT Goulston St!

[Phil Carter]

Hello all,

The most obvious answer to income would be that any museum is open to the general public, generating said income, a question which may be asked is will said City Police Museum be open to the public, and another, will this be considered at the Met museum? Apologies if such a policy is already in place.

Best wirhes

Phil

[lynn cates]

heh-heh

Hello Mr. Begg. Quite. Nevertheless, reality should never stand in the way of a good joke.

Agreed about preservation. It is essential.

Cheers.
LC

[PaulB]

Hello Neil.

"I'm afraid they look at this from a financial point of view and the first question is what is this costing us?"

Ah, now I know why it is called "Scotland Yard." (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

One should make the point, however, that it is the City of London Police museum which is being discussed, not Scotland Yard's. Both have a fabulous history and it is a travesty, really, that it isn't preserved, displayed and made public in a museum. That money has to be spent on crime prevention/detection goes without saying, of course, but the armed forces, railways, buses, cars, even TV, have museums.

[Monty]

Hello Neil.

"I'm afraid they look at this from a financial point of view and the first question is what is this costing us?"

Ah, now I know why it is called "Scotland Yard." (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

Indeed Lynn,

And when the cost of a cuppa at CoLP canteen is only 15p I can see why they are reviewing their spend.

Its costing them to make it.

Monty

[Phil Carter]

Hello Neil,

Many thanks again. Ok. A police museum has previously used a Ripper artifact as a promotion for said re-launch- The Met- using the Swanson Marginalia- and now another police museum are using the exact same tactic with this new find- The City-.

Now we have that sorted- the principle is the same. As I stated earlier, my fear was no back up plan which you kindly explained, very openly.

My concerns here are obvious. It seems, as you pointed out, that history and revelation of "what we have" mean sweet FA to the police. In using historical artifacts kept tucked away for as long as they want to self promote instead of the BEST possible promotion, an open see through system that the general public can really appreciate, is a shoot oneself in the foot attitude.

At the same time various police forces scream " we are open" in rooting out racist individuals and law breakers within their own. Hypocracy is a word I use rarely, but it is well about time the police in general took a good long look at their attitude- if Don Rumbelow noted it when he was running around to save historical items, then clearly the attitude hasnt changed much in 40 odd years. Historically, they dont give a tinkers cuss, unless seemingly, they get something out of it.

I understand your immense frustration. It is a nightmare.
My sympathy goes to you both, and recognise again just where historians stand.

What scares me most is the principle that ownership of case evidence can cause it to be held back if they wish- clearly in defience of all known agreements and time regulations and laws.

A side issue perhaps- but relevant to this problem. Its " Yes Minister" in miniature. A public authority holding all the cards
then again," if relatives of Judas could be traced today they would be in danger".
Yes- I DO understand your frustration.

Have a great weekend!

Phil

[lynn cates]

SY

Hello Neil.

"I'm afraid they look at this from a financial point of view and the first question is what is this costing us?"

Ah, now I know why it is called "Scotland Yard." (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi All,

Most intriguing, but all we can do is speculate for the time being. What little common sense I have suggests that such a graffito photograph, if in possession of the CofL Police, must relate to the Eddowes murder in some way. If so, it's probably going to be the most important discovery (with provenance) for a very long time. Good luck, Neil & Rob. I'm sure it'll be worth the wait.

Regards, Bridewell.

What difference would it make to have a photo of some graffiti as against what we have with regards to Goulston Street or the hundreds of letters. You would still have to

link it to the murder
show that the murderer wrote it.

Goulston Street or any of the letters does neither of those and much of that has been classed by many as "hard evidence"

[Monty]

Phil,

There are two museums, Citys and the Mets.

The City have never re-launched, I think this is what Rob is referring to. The Crime Museum (Met) was kinda given a re-vamp when the Marginalia was handed over under much hype.

However, as stated, the City of Londons Police museum was never relaunched and are a seperate entity from The Crime Museum based at New Scotland Yard.

Monty

[Phil Carter]

Phil,

I am getting ready for work so haven't time for a long post so I'll be brief.

Get you facts right. There was no museum relaunch in 1987.

Rob

Hello Rob,
correct me as much as you wish- if it gives you a kick - the YEAR might have been wrong but the principle stands. The museum HAVE re-launched before using a Ripper item to promote said re-launch. (The marginalia) and one can find it by googling 'Swanson BBC" article is dated 2006. Therèore the principle point stands.

hello Neil,

thank you for, again, a very open reply re a contingency plan, it is THIS sort of openess that I applaud loudly. Again, many thanks.

Best wishes

Phil

[spyglass]

Hi all,
With all the excitement about the new graffito photo, Im slightly more intrigued by what the second photo could be of.

[Barnaby]

Barnaby:

If this message had been written BEFORE the GSG and perceived as a potential lead, then we would have known it by references made to it when the GSG was found and discussed.

Extremely good point, sir.

[Fisherman]

Barnaby:

" if Jack is chalking messages"

Much would depend on the point of time this message of Rob´s and Monty´s was perceived to have been written. And I think the only reasonable thing is to put it after the GSG. At that stage, any chalked message would be looked upon with great interest by the investigators, seeing as there was already a chalked message recorded that could be a potential clue.
If this message had been written BEFORE the GSG and perceived as a potential lead, then we would have known it by references made to it when the GSG was found and discussed.

The only other possibility would be that the GSG by it´s nature necessitated a fresh new look at some message that had been found earlier and thought to be of little interest, until the GSG made it obvious that it was not. Which begs the question what kind of a message the GSG would make in any way obvious?? Answer: only a message that was very close in wording to the GSG. Again, if this was the case, we would have had that reference, I´d say.

So, this "new" message is of a younger date than the GSG. And therefore it was written, in all probability, at a stage when the GSG was known and when the police would be wary not to disregard anything that was written in chalk, having learned a bitter lesson in Goulston Street. And that all leads me to the guess that this message will not be perceived as any reliably hot stuff when we get to see it.

Hope I´m wrong, though - and I´m just as intrigued as anybody else here!

The best,
Fisherman

[Barnaby]

I, for one, am hoping it's Van Gogh street art.

If this turns out to be chalk writing, and especially if it is not from the night of the double event, to what extent would this change minds about the GSG? Many skeptics, for good reason, do not believe that the GSG was left by the killer, but if there is a pattern of leaving chalked messages then we may need to reevaluate.

Also, if Jack is chalking messages, then maybe he also is sending letters...

All very exciting!

[Rob Clack]

Phil,

I am getting ready for work so haven't time for a long post so I'll be brief.

Get you facts right. There was no museum relaunch in 1987.

Rob

[Monty]

Phil,

Don Rumbelow once said something which has stuck with me because it rings so very true, the Police are extremely poor historians.

I'm afraid they look at this from a financial point of view and the first question is what is this costing us?

I can confirm there is a contigency plan should the museum be disbanded. Its not my place to say what it is but there is a 'plan B' as it were. And that plan, so I was told, still enables material to be viewed.

Finally, again I'm afraid I'm not going to discuss the item itself however I will say supporting evidence has been gathered which will be open to all for scrutiny as soon as we can possibly release it.

Monty