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  • aspallek
    started a topic Crawford Letter

    Crawford Letter

    A thread to discuss the "Crawford Letter" discovered by Stephen Ryder in 2001. Undated but found in a folder of materials relating to the late 1880's to 1890's it was written by the 26th Earl of Crawford, James Ludovic Lindsay, to Robert Anderson. The subject of the letter is unknown. The letter reads:

    2 CAVENDISH SQUARE
    W.

    My dear Anderson,

    I send you this line to ask you to see & hear the bearer, whose name is unknown to me. She has or thinks she has a knowledge of the author of the Whitechapel murders. The author is supposed to be nearly related to her, & she is in great fear lest any suspicions should attach to her & place her & her family in peril.

    I have advised her to place the whole story before you, without giving you any names, so that you may form an opinion as to its being worth while to investigate.

    Very sincerely yours,
    Crawford

  • Simon Wood
    replied
    Hi BB,

    That would be James Monro's 'Hot Potato.'

    Onto other matters.

    Lydia Manton died from allegedly imbibing a large quantity of carbolic acid, a substance which everybody keeps under the sink. She had been having an affair with Prince Eddy, who had a terminal case of le pox royale, and it wouldn't have been the biggest surprise in the world to learn that Lydia had it also.

    Regards,

    Simon

    Leave a comment:


  • jmenges
    replied
    Originally posted by Elamarna View Post


    I am not struggling Nick, I am at a loss to see how there can be a MEANINGFUL link regarding the murders from Crawford who wrote a letter to Anderson(Crawford's link to murder) to Gull, who as Simon so clearly points out was incapable of being involved.
    His only link, like it or not, is the sullying of his name, in one of the most fanciful theories ever proposed. One that has been fully discredited.
    In reality there is no link from Gull to the murders.

    Of course if you merely mean an historical link between Gulls son In law, not him and Crawford then of course that is true and an interesting coincidence, but no more.


    I really don't see what point you are hoping to make.
    Unless you can show a really link from Gull or his family to the murders, or for that matter even a speculative link.



    Steve
    A speculative link has been made by Patricia Cornwell between Sickert and Gull, Florence Pash, George Lewis and the death of Lydia Manton (who was rumored to have been having an affair with Prince Eddy) leading to Gull's name being passed by Sickert down to Joseph Gorman.

    JM

    Leave a comment:


  • ADRIANA DELGADO
    replied
    Originally posted by busy beaver View Post
    i wonder if this letter has any links to donald swanson's "hot potato"?
    good days, no doubt some of my favorites, the scriptures of your authority are an artwork i declare your fans number 1.

    Leave a comment:


  • Busy Beaver
    replied
    I wonder if this letter has any links to Donald Swanson's "Hot Potato"?

    Leave a comment:


  • Elamarna
    replied
    Originally posted by packers stem View Post
    Steve , your logic is badly flawed here mate .
    You may not like the royal theory .
    That's your choice , the same as with any other theory , and neither is it for me .
    But I won't bury my head, stamp my feet and ignore any independent information that may come to light .
    This is INDEPENDENT information .It's got nothing to do with Knight ,Joseph Sickert etc.
    It is completely separate information about a previously named suspect (whether you like it or not that is the case ) .
    Liking the theory is irrelevant .
    Had 74 Brook Street belonged to any other previously put forward suspect such as Druitt Maybrick , I would have pointed it out in exactly the same way .... I would have found it of interest that the person who wrote the letter has a provable link to a previously named suspect
    I'm not sure what you're struggling with here .Are you trying to say that if a new document was found from an impeccable source that directly incriminated Gull you would just refuse to accept it because you don't like the previous theory ??

    I am not struggling Nick, I am at a loss to see how there can be a MEANINGFUL link regarding the murders from Crawford who wrote a letter to Anderson(Crawford's link to murder) to Gull, who as Simon so clearly points out was incapable of being involved.
    His only link, like it or not, is the sullying of his name, in one of the most fanciful theories ever proposed. One that has been fully discredited.
    In reality there is no link from Gull to the murders.

    Of course if you merely mean an historical link between Gulls son In law, not him and Crawford then of course that is true and an interesting coincidence, but no more.


    I really don't see what point you are hoping to make.
    Unless you can show a really link from Gull or his family to the murders, or for that matter even a speculative link.



    Steve

    Leave a comment:


  • Simon Wood
    replied
    Gull's stroke resulted in hemiplegia—limited feeling in his right side, so I doubt he'd have been of much use in the removal of organs.

    Leave a comment:


  • packers stem
    replied
    Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
    Sir William Gull as a suspect is a non-starter.

    The Times, 30th January 1890—

    “We regret to announce that Sir William Gull died at half-past 12 yesterday at his residence, 74, Brook-street, London, from paralysis. Sir William was seized with a severe attack of paralysis just over two years ago while staying at Urrard, Killiecrankie, and never sufficiently recovered to resume his practice.
    He's not my favourite suspect Simon
    I would ask the question though, was his physical condition such that that had a corpse been placed in front of him in a room would he have been physically capable of carrying out organ removal ?
    I suspect the answer to that would be probably yes
    Of course ,it's even then highly unlikely.

    My aim here was to merely point out that there is a link between the Crawford family and a previously named suspect that nobody seems to have picked up on

    Regards
    Nick

    Leave a comment:


  • Simon Wood
    replied
    Sir William Gull as a suspect is a non-starter.

    The Times, 30th January 1890—

    “We regret to announce that Sir William Gull died at half-past 12 yesterday at his residence, 74, Brook-street, London, from paralysis. Sir William was seized with a severe attack of paralysis just over two years ago while staying at Urrard, Killiecrankie, and never sufficiently recovered to resume his practice.

    Leave a comment:


  • packers stem
    replied
    Originally posted by Elamarna View Post
    What you are missing Nick is that Gull is not a credible suspect, only in the fantasy theories and movies is he such.

    It's not about coincidence, because Gull is Not linked to the murders by any evidence at all.
    And for any "link"to be interesting, other than of pure coincidence, one must believe Gull is somehow involved in the murders.
    Buying or renting something from a relative of someone does not form a link, unless you are desperately looking for one, no matter how tenuous.

    The only "link" is that Crawford sent a letter to Anderson.

    Of course if you have evidence that links Gull to the murders, I am sure we would all love to hear it.



    Steve
    Steve , your logic is badly flawed here mate .
    You may not like the royal theory .
    That's your choice , the same as with any other theory , and neither is it for me .
    But I won't bury my head, stamp my feet and ignore any independent information that may come to light .
    This is INDEPENDENT information .It's got nothing to do with Knight ,Joseph Sickert etc.
    It is completely separate information about a previously named suspect (whether you like it or not that is the case ) .
    Liking the theory is irrelevant .
    Had 74 Brook Street belonged to any other previously put forward suspect such as Druitt Maybrick , I would have pointed it out in exactly the same way .... I would have found it of interest that the person who wrote the letter has a provable link to a previously named suspect
    I'm not sure what you're struggling with here .Are you trying to say that if a new document was found from an impeccable source that directly incriminated Gull you would just refuse to accept it because you don't like the previous theory ??

    Leave a comment:


  • Elamarna
    replied
    Originally posted by packers stem View Post
    Of all the houses in all the streets you had to walk into mine .....

    None of us know who was or was not involved in the ripper crimes at the moment so jumping the gun a bit there Steve .
    Had he rented a house from the Kosminsky family you would be all over this like a rash .

    It proves a link between the Gull and Crawford families .
    All we know is that Crawford was rather coy and careful in his wording so we can not have any idea who he was talking about but clearly a friend of the family in my opinion .
    I mean it must have been a friend who held him in confidence .

    I know you love your coincidences Steve .
    Sometimes in life , just sometimes , things aren't

    What you are missing Nick is that Gull is not a credible suspect, only in the fantasy theories and movies is he such.

    It's not about coincidence, because Gull is Not linked to the murders by any evidence at all.
    And for any "link"to be interesting, other than of pure coincidence, one must believe Gull is somehow involved in the murders.
    Buying or renting something from a relative of someone does not form a link, unless you are desperately looking for one, no matter how tenuous.

    The only "link" is that Crawford sent a letter to Anderson.

    Of course if you have evidence that links Gull to the murders, I am sure we would all love to hear it.



    Steve

    Leave a comment:


  • DJA
    replied
    Originally posted by packers stem View Post
    Of all the houses in all the streets you had to walk into mine .....

    None of us know who was or was not involved in the ripper crimes at the moment so jumping the gun a bit there Steve .
    Had he rented a house from the Kosminsky family you would be all over this like a rash .

    It proves a link between the Gull and Crawford families .
    All we know is that Crawford was rather coy and careful in his wording so we can not have any idea who he was talking about but clearly a friend of the family in my opinion .
    I mean it must have been a friend who held him in confidence .

    I know you love your coincidences Steve .
    Sometimes in life , just sometimes , things aren't
    Reckon Gull knew who Jack the Ripper was.

    Have no doubt that he put the idea in WE Gladstone's mind that Jack was actually conducting research that would be of benefit to the greater good.

    Leave a comment:


  • packers stem
    replied
    Originally posted by Elamarna View Post
    However, has Gull was not involved in the Ripper crimes, such a "link" is irrelevant.
    Renting a house from Gull's son in law is not surprising given that they were of the same elite grouping in society..

    Steve
    Of all the houses in all the streets you had to walk into mine .....

    None of us know who was or was not involved in the ripper crimes at the moment so jumping the gun a bit there Steve .
    Had he rented a house from the Kosminsky family you would be all over this like a rash .

    It proves a link between the Gull and Crawford families .
    All we know is that Crawford was rather coy and careful in his wording so we can not have any idea who he was talking about but clearly a friend of the family in my opinion .
    I mean it must have been a friend who held him in confidence .

    I know you love your coincidences Steve .
    Sometimes in life , just sometimes , things aren't

    Leave a comment:


  • Elamarna
    replied
    Originally posted by packers stem View Post
    So we have a link between the Crawford family and Sir William Gull.
    Eldest son rented 74 Brook Street from Acland .
    Interesting ....

    However, has Gull was not involved in the Ripper crimes, such a "link" is irrelevant.
    Renting a house from Gull's son in law is not surprising given that they were of the same elite grouping in society..

    Steve

    Leave a comment:


  • packers stem
    replied
    So we have a link between the Crawford family and Sir William Gull.
    Eldest son rented 74 Brook Street from Acland .
    Interesting ....

    Leave a comment:

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