what is your opinion of the letters?

[Pontius2000]

most of these were seen at the time then and now as being hoaxes. and I agree. but I'm wondering, do you believe that JTR DID write letters to the police and press, or he did not?

personally, I think that without any doubt whatsoever, he did write some letters. which ones, I don't know. but at the time, police didn't have the experience with killers like the Zodiac and Son Of Sam, who we know both wrote letters to the police.

JTR seems to have the same personality type as Zodiac and Son of Sam. all 3 wanted to make a very public display of their crimes. so, to me, it seems almost absurd to think that he wrote no letter at all. when you have a killer like Jeffrey Dahmer, you see no letters to the police/press because he wanted his crimes to be a secret. but JTR/Zodiac/SoS all wanted to scare the public and make a display and 2 of the 3 did indeed write letters.

so to me, I think the investigation would be better off to assume that he did indeed write letters and then try to determine which one(s) were most likely to be authentic. also, I think a good deal could be learned about JTR by studying Berkowitcz (Son of Sam).

[ChrisGeorge]

Hello Pontius

Well you know we get the impression "Jack wrote letters" because of the sheer number of letters received by the authorities, hundreds of them, although that was not entirely known at the time. It is evident from Evans and Skinner's excellent Jack the Ripper: Letters from Hell which I would highly recommend to you or anyone else interested in the letters. So whether the killer actually did write a letter we don't know. If he didn't speak English, he probably didn't write a letter. But again the publicity over the letters and yes, as you say, the public display that Jack made of his victims gives us the impression that he was proud of his work and would have written about it in a letter or two. Frankly I am not sure what the case of Son of Sam aka David Berkowitz has to tell us about the Ripper case, especially if Jack was not a letter writer.

Chris

[Johnno]

More on Son of Sam

The best book on Son of Sam was "Ultimate Evil" by Maury Terry, a NYC reporter who was very involved in the case, and got to know Berkowitz. Based on a lot of research and solid work, he concluded that Berkowitz was part of a Satanic cult, did not (and probably could not) commit all the crimes, and so I think his relevance to the Ripper is marginal. The book was published in 1988/9, and was updated in a 1999 version (which I haven't seen.) I believe it's out of print, but there are copies available on Amazon and ABE sites.

[lynn cates]

tears

Hello Pontius. When I finally settled it in my mind that NONE of his purported letters were actually written by Jack, I think I may have shed tears. That crushed most of the mystique for me.

It took awhile, but I have gotten over it. I think we all CAN and MUST get over the myths and treat the case (or cases) objectively.

The best.
LC

[Pontius2000]

Frankly I am not sure what the case of Son of Sam aka David Berkowitz has to tell us about the Ripper case, especially if Jack was not a letter writer.

Chris

the thought process of that type of killer and the way they operate and what measures they took to avoid detection. and the motive. I think all that would be relevant to understanding JTR.

they both made public scenes with their killings (though SOS was a lot less "personal" in his crimes than JTR was)

they both obviously had a major problem with women

SOS wrote letters to police and in all probability, JTR did too. though it may have just been one letter and it may not have been any of the letters most famously associated with him.

Berkowitz suffered from a mental illness and several of the JTR suspects are thought to have as well.

I think they are generally the same type of personalities. could you learn anything about JTR based on SOS 120+ years after the fact? don't know. but as far as I know, the JTR case was the first serial killer case where police/press/citizens received taunting letters. and we now know that many of these type killers do indeed have the need to lash out at authorities. they seek credit for their work. and just by the gruesome displays that JTR made with his crimes, you have to assume that he liked the credit as well.

I have just now ordered from ebay a copy of the Letters From Hell book and a copy of James Tully's book on James Kelly. what others do you recommend? I have already read Jack The Ripper A-Z, The Complete Jack The Ripper, and the laughably bad JTR "Diary" and Patricia Cornwell's books.

[Pontius2000]

Hello Pontius. When I finally settled it in my mind that NONE of his purported letters were actually written by Jack, I think I may have shed tears. That crushed most of the mystique for me.

It took awhile, but I have gotten over it. I think we all CAN and MUST get over the myths and treat the case (or cases) objectively.

The best.
LC

how did you come to that conclussion though? I see a lot of JTR suspects dismissed (some rightfully so) due to lack of evidence. Montigue Druitt was clearly a prime suspect of at least one police official, but most dismiss him as a suspect due to lack of any evidence. so how can every single letter written be dismissed when there is no evidence for their dismissal. granted, I agree that most of the letter were hoaxes. most likely, I imagine that JTR wrote 1-3 letters. he may have given up on letter writing when the police didn't take the letters seriously. or maybe that's why Lusk got a letter: because the police weren't paying them much attention.

I just think that with the current evidence we have that many serial killers do in fact write letters, and there were hundreds of "ripper letters" sent, that the odds are high that one or a couple of these letters being authentic.

[ChrisGeorge]

I have just now ordered from ebay a copy of the Letters From Hell book and a copy of James Tully's book on James Kelly. what others do you recommend? I have already read Jack The Ripper A-Z, The Complete Jack The Ripper, and the laughably bad JTR "Diary" and Patricia Cornwell's books.

I don't know whether by The Complete Jack The Ripper you mean Rumbelow's book or Sugden's but I would certainly recommend Philip Sugden's The Complete History of Jack the Ripper and also Rumbelow and Evans's Jack the Ripper: Scotland Yard Investigates, written by two former coppers who certainly know police procedures. Evans and Skinner's The Ultimate Jack the Ripper Sourcebook aka The Ultimate Jack the Ripper Sourcebook is a must have for all the important documents on the case plus an informed commentary.

Chris

[lynn cates]

ripper models

Hi Pontius! Actually, there is no evidence implicating any one suspect. There is, however, some circumstantial evidence. Hence, we can do no better at present than to trot out the old police suspects--Druitt, Kosminski, Koslowski, Tumblety and perhaps Cohen (Kaminski). For a while, Stephenson was suspected.

The letters? We're pretty sure who wrote "Dear Boss" and "Saucy Jack." And although Lusk was perturbed on receiving it, he and most ripperologists regard "From Hell" as a hoax.

You see, a letter writing serial killer fits some suspects; others not. To assume ANY letter authentic is already to have a certain model of the ripper before our minds. Now, if Stephenson were the ripper, I would be shocked if he hadn't written a letter. If Kaminski were the ripper, then, in his frenzied state of mind and with his English skills, no.

The best.
LC

[Nell Lance]

I agree with LC If the Ripper were Kosminski (sp?) he probably lacked the lucidity and forethought to compose a letter.
But as they say, truth is stranger than fiction.
Let's compare for a moment the "from Hell" letter to the Lindbergh ransom letter, a letter that had three circular symbols on the bottom. It was handled and rehandled hundreds of times and any evidence value it originally had to catch the culprit was lost. Although it was determined by the use of the word "boad" (instead of "boat") that the alleged writer was likely German.
Some analysts could possibly agree if the "from Hell" letter were authentic, a determineation could be made from the spellings of certain words like "prasarved" that the writer may have written phoenetically and therefore possibly foreign. Hopefully, in the near future, the "from Hell" letter can be either authenticated or dismissed by its forensic traits.

Nell Lance

[Philbee]

Hi Nell ...there are . indicators in the Lusk Letter that the writer was of Germanic descent sorry cant remember who pointed this out before but check the boards ..basically it is the words catch me when you can... due to german ( wenn ...if ) obviously ...Dont think authentication in the pipeline as original lost apparentley but hey what would that prove ..microcondrial dna dont make me larff

[Mascara & Paranoia]

I used to (embarrassingly) believe that he wrote the Dear Boss and Saucy Jacky letters but I've come to my senses since then. I never considered at first that he wrote the From Hell letter until last year due to the illiteracy and believing that the Ripper must've had good grammar and neat handwriting et cetera (though F knows why), but I thankfully came to my senses about that too earlier this year and am now fairly convinced that they're all fake, the Lusk letter included (the only one I'm on the fence about).

The man responsible for the rippings doesn't seem in the least bit funny or like that of a practical joker to me, or to have cared about anything relating to the murders aside from the eviscerating, least of all the impact they had on the public in general. I doubt he even considered that his murders would garner the extent of publicity as they did and probably ended up craping it when they became such a big thing in fear of being caught. He may have looked back on it years later and thought he was a shrewd little bastard but I can't see him being too cocky at the height of the Ripper scare.

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi Mascara & Paranoia

You make some good points about the murders. The only message from the killer might have been the murders themselves.

Chris

[Yerkcod]

Hi All

As I believe that Jack was an uneducated murdering lunatic who lived locally and worked in some menial job, I think it would be highly likely that he would be illiterate or at least unable to compose such sardonic letters. I think they are all fake but the Lusk one throws me a bit.

[lynn cates]

good sense

Hello M & P. You make good sense. I think that, by eliminating the correspondence, we can get much farther towards a decent suspect.

The best.
LC

[ChrisGeorge]

Hello M & P. You make good sense. I think that, by eliminating the correspondence, we can get much farther towards a decent suspect.

The best.
LC

Check. As you indicate, the correspondence is misleading.

Chris