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Originally posted by Abby Normal
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Rather pertinent as "Jack" died 9 June 1891.
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The radial dendrogram lists nothing beyond 1891.
Rather pertinent as "Jack" died 9 June 1891.My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account
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Winters coming
Hi AbbyOriginally posted by Abby Normal View Post
The 1896 letter is directly under Saucy Jack in Fig.3
Green label name JR 141096.Comment
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Missed that one
Interesting grouping in that color.My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email accountComment
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Thanks PhantomOriginally posted by phantom View Post
what does that mean though? its similar according to there analysis to saucy Jack?
if so, how is it similar-just the same words and phrases used? any handwriting comparison done in this study?"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"
-Edgar Allan Poe
"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."
-Frederick G. AbberlineComment
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Hi AbbyOriginally posted by Abby Normal View Post
The author doesn't specifically say anything about the 1896 letter apart from grouping it in the green label "Dear Boss" cluster in Fig.3.
The letters in this cluster e.g. Moab and Midian, 1896 letter etc. are considered the most linguistically similar to Dear Boss and Saucy Jack.
I presume that as the dendrogram radiates outwards from the green label "Dear Boss" cluster, they are considered more to less linguistically similar.
For example the pink/magenta groups directly above and below the green "Dear Boss" cluster are considered to be the next most similar. As the dendogram radiates outwards from these, the other clusters are considered less similar.
No handwriting analysis was done as part of this study. Linguistic comparison only.
The author also acknowledged the problem with plagiarism i.e. a lot of the "Post publication" letters are deilberately written to imitate the language of Dear Boss and Saucy, but he tried to factor that into account with the method he used.Comment
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Media coverage
PS It would seem that mainstream media has interpreted Dr Nini's paper as proof that Dear Boss etc were hoaxed by a journalist.
Dr. Nini does not state that in his paper. Only that he believes Dear Boss, Saucy and Moab and Midian were written by the same person.
However according to the recent interview with him below it seems he does personally believe that someone at CNA hoaxed them:
"There's historical evidence that points to the journalist theory for the earliest ones ('Dear Boss' and 'Saucy Jacky') and, since this 'Moab and Midian' letter might have been entirely fabricated at the Central News Agency - the original [document] was never found or sent to the police - if the linguistic evidence supports that this was the same author as the Dear Boss and Saucy Jacky then we could argue that the linguistic evidence does support to the journalist theory," said Nini. "However, this is a conclusion that should be reached by the historians, not the linguists."
Huffington Post have continued with the proof of hoax angle with a 2013 interview with Trevor Marriott claiming Thomas Bulling hoaxed Dear Boss et al and that his (Bullings)handwriting is "strikingly similar".
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I knew it. Thanks phantomOriginally posted by phantom View Post"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"
-Edgar Allan Poe
"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."
-Frederick G. AbberlineComment
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Interesting stuff...
Something to consider if Bulling was indeed the author and witter of Dear Boss, he made a copy of the Moab and Midian (or was the copy the original?!?) letter that he himself authored then sent it to the police for comparison with two he had earlier sent?
Bulling if the author was clearly a psychopath...has anyone run Bulling up the flagpole as Jack yet?
That would be an interesting twist, I'm not sure whether it would render Dear Boss fake or real...this stuff can keep you awake at night!
(DD 3am, Sleepless in Scotland)Comment
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The nature of the Moab & Midian letter is curious.
It is a part of the Bible not many would be familiar with.
Baruch Spinoza gave it a bit of attention,as Elwes's translations from 1883 onward show.
The author of the letter does transmit an almost didactic zeal.My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email accountComment
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Bulling
It’s very interesting!Originally posted by DirectorDave View Post
Hopefully Dr Nini’s analysis can complement any other associated research e.g. hand writing analysis etc.
I’ll note here that Sue Iremonger identified Dear Boss, Saucy Jack and the ‘threat letter’ of 8/10/88 as being in the same hand (I am aware some people dispute this and say the latter is a skilful copy).
Personally I’m not sold on the idea that Bulling physically wrote Dear Boss or Saucy Jack because he’s handwriting from the Moab and Midian transcription is not the same.
But I suspect the cause for suspicion that he hoaxed the letters stems from the Moab and Midian episode.
Another thing to consider is that, although Bulling transcribing Moab and Midian looks very dodgy to us, considering the scarcity of surviving documentation on file, we don’t really know what happened here i.e. why he transcribed it and whether the police did end up seeing the ‘original’ letter (if it existed). And then of course the envelope is missing too.
We do know that Swanson was comparing letters in 1896 so it could not have been clearly established that they were hoaxes at that time.
And then there’s the old argument that if they had proof Bulling, Moore or someone else had hoaxed them then you would expect that they would have been charged e.g. Maria Coroner. IIRC Chris Scott also established that Bulling continued to work as a journalist post his Bismarck sacking.
If only because Bulling and Moore are mentioned by Littlechild I do think they’re much stronger candidates for hoaxing journalists than suspects like Harry Dam, Nigel Mooreland’s Best and Andrew Cook’s Frederick Best (the claims against the last two I find a little suspect).
I also entertain the idea that some incoming official such as Melville McNaughton may have reviewed the case at a later stage i.e. post 1888, came across the Moab and Midian letter and possibly without knowing the undocumented or lost documented story behind it assumed as many people do today that it was highly suspicious and the “enterprising journalist” idea was born from there. Just a thought.Comment
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The 'Diego Laurenz' letter of 10/10/1888 doesn't seem to have made an appearance for some reason, unless I've overlooked it?
Regards‘There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact’ Sherlock HolmesComment
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Correct me if I’m wrong, but reason it does not appear is probably because it was not included in Letters from Hell?Originally posted by Spider View Post
The letters analysed are solely those 209 published in Letters from Hell.
So not all known Ripper-letters.Comment
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Cheers for that, I've just found her reference detail under the 'Data' heading as being LFH material. Pity it wasn't included
Regards‘There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact’ Sherlock HolmesComment
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I have. But mainly in jest. But if you think about it.....Originally posted by DirectorDave View Post"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"
-Edgar Allan Poe
"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."
-Frederick G. AbberlineComment
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I don’t think bulling sent the Moab letter. Someone else at cna did.Originally posted by DirectorDave View Post
I’ve never placed much emphasis on the Moab letter, mainly because of the fact there is no original...too nebulous, apocraphyl for my take.
Dear boss, saucy jack I think just slightly better than 50/50 the ripper wrote it."Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"
-Edgar Allan Poe
"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."
-Frederick G. AbberlineComment
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