The Complete Jack the Ripper, Donald Rumbelow

[BooksbyBJThompson]

I've atrached a page on the Nichols murder.

Rumbelow says it was Cross who suggested they prop Polly up, and it's Paul who refuses.
Is this correct? Or is this an earlier research gaffe on Rumbelow's end?

Any info on this appreciated. Thanks.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Barbara,

In The Telegraph - Witness suggested that they should give her a prop, but his companion refused to touch her.

- so they have Cross suggesting it


In The Times version - The other man, having put his hand over her heart, said “I think she is breathing.” He wanted witness to assist in shifting her, but he would not do so.

- so they have Paul suggesting it


The Echo: Sit her up," I replied, "I'm not going to touch her.

- So they have Paul suggesting it.


The Star: He suggested they should shift her - set her up against the wall - but witness said, "I'm not going to touch her.

- So they have Paul…


It looks like The Telegraph got it wrong and it was Cross who didn’t want to touch the body

[BooksbyBJThompson]

It looks like The Telegraph got it wrong and it was Cross who didn’t want to touch the body

Thanks Herlock.
Hm...
But why would Donald Rumbelow go with the Telegraph then?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Thanks Herlock.
Hm...
But why would Donald Rumbelow go with the Telegraph then?

Sorry I’m late responding Barbara. I don’t know that answer to that one for certain but I can only assume that The Telegraph was the first one that Don referenced when researching his book which came out in pre-internet 1975. He must have just assumed that all versions would have been the same.

[The Rookie Detective]

"George Cross" & "John Paul"

That infamous duo.

[Tom_Wescott]

"George Cross" & "John Paul"

That infamous duo.

John, Paul, George. They stole Polly's ringo.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[BooksbyBJThompson]

I'm gathering there are some sardonic storms a gathering on The Complete JtR .

[Fiver]

"George Cross" & "John Paul"

That infamous duo.

"George Cross, a carman, stated that he left home on Friday morning at 20 minutes past 3, and he arrived at his work, at Broad-Street, at 4 o'clock." - 4 September 1888, Times

"John Paul, of 30, Foster-Street, Whitechapel, said he was a carman. On Friday, August 31st, he left home at about a quarter to four o'clock to go to his work in Spitalfields." - 22 September 1888, Illustrated Police News

[The Rookie Detective]

"George Cross, a carman, stated that he left home on Friday morning at 20 minutes past 3, and he arrived at his work, at Broad-Street, at 4 o'clock." - 4 September 1888, Times

"John Paul, of 30, Foster-Street, Whitechapel, said he was a carman. On Friday, August 31st, he left home at about a quarter to four o'clock to go to his work in Spitalfields." - 22 September 1888, Illustrated Police News

Which shows you the value of newspaper reports; not worth the paper they're written on.

[BooksbyBJThompson]

Whoever said not to move Polly's body... did they sense something was wrong more than a drunk woman passed out? Even without seeing the blood? Something the papers never reported or the men never expounded on.
It's a strange thing to say unless you know the person is dead.
And no, Cross/Lechmere wasn't the Ripper.
There's something missing from this scene.

[Lewis C]

Whoever said not to move Polly's body... did they sense something was wrong more than a drunk woman passed out? Even without seeing the blood? Something the papers never reported or the men never expounded on.
It's a strange thing to say unless you know the person is dead.
And no, Cross/Lechmere wasn't the Ripper.
There's something missing from this scene.

Maybe whichever didn't want to touch her just thought there was no real reason to do so, so don't touch her if it isn't necessary.

[BooksbyBJThompson]

Maybe whichever didn't want to touch her just thought there was no real reason to do so, so don't touch her if it isn't necessary.

Yeah, makes sense.
Back then, probably a best practice, considering the diseases swirling around.
It's just a response I doubt we'd hear from someone today.

[Geddy2112]

Yeah, makes sense.
Back then, probably a best practice, considering the diseases swirling around.
It's just a response I doubt we'd hear from someone today.

One think is for certain I'm sure if I was the killer I'd be moving her as much as I could to get blood all over me so when questioned I had a reasonable excuse to be covered in blood. I guess we can deduce from this that either Cross or Paul or both were not the killer and did not need an excuse to have blood on them because they were innocent and they knew it.

[BooksbyBJThompson]

Yeah, you're absolutely right.
Neither Cross nor Paul act in any way as the killer.

If it had been Cross, and he heard footsteps approaching, he'd quit the scene in the opposite direction. If not to only evade identification but to conceal his lustful high.

If it had been Paul, he'd have never walked back up Buck's Row to bump into who know's who.

[Abby Normal]

hi books.
yes a guilty lech not wanting to touch her dosnt make sense. in those circs, he would want to have an excuse if he was found to have blood on himself... because he touched her as he was trying to help her.

That being said, neither of them not wanting to touch her, ie help her, try propping her up etc. and instead just leaving her as she was with saying oh if we see a copper well tell him about her, is, in my book, rather callous and uncaring. but thats just me.