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  • The Diary

    Can anyone tell me the police force which conducted the investigation into the diary and who interviewed the main protagonists.

    Caz has already mentioned to me "The Organised Crime Dept" but I need to know what force they were from if anyone can help?

    www.trevormarriott.co.uk

  • #2
    Caz or Keith Skinner should be able to answer that one for you Trev.

    My understanding, which may or may not be just confusing the issue, is that Paul Dodd wanted to rule out that a theft had not taken place and it could have been him that instigated an investigation. I could be wrong. If it was so, it would be logical to assume that the local police (Merseyside Police) would be the force tasked to investigate would it not?
    "When the legend becomes fact... print the legend"
    - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by erobitha View Post
      Caz or Keith Skinner should be able to answer that one for you Trev.

      My understanding, which may or may not be just confusing the issue, is that Paul Dodd wanted to rule out that a theft had not taken place and it could have been him that instigated an investigation. I could be wrong. If it was so, it would be logical to assume that the local police (Merseyside Police) would be the force tasked to investigate would it not?
      That is my belief but Robert Smith was interviewed at a London police station, but that could have been on a voluntary basis by an outside force

      As the Sunday times made a complaint that theoretically should have come under the jurisdiction of The Met or The City Police

      Comment


      • #4
        I already told you all I knew, Trev, via private message over on Howard Brown's forums, and you even replied!

        You can find the details in Ripper Diary, beginning on page 67.

        For everyone else, Scotland Yard's investigation was instigated by the Sunday Times. Two detectives from its Organised Crime Squad arrived in Liverpool on 20th October 1993 to interview a number of people connected with the diary. The investigation was trailed in the Daily Express of 5th October by journalist Stephen Grey, who continued to monitor the situation.

        Scotland Yard's task was to decide if the diary's publisher, Robert Smith, had knowingly tried to pass off a fake document as genuine. Led by the Yard's Detective Sergeant Thomas, known as "Bonesy" to his colleagues, the investigation included interviews with, among others, Mike Barrett, Tony Devereux's daughters, Paul Dodd and several electricians who had worked in Battlecrease. Robert Smith was finally interviewed by DS Thomas of Scotland Yard at Belgravia police station on 19th November 1993. [Did you not read my reply to you properly??]

        On 15th January 1994, the Liverpool Daily Post announced that the Crown Prosecution Service would be taking no further action against Robert Smith, deciding there was not enough evidence to have a realistic prospect of getting a conviction.

        I do wish you luck in getting the information you seek from the powers that be, Trev, and if you get anywhere it would be very useful if you could share it with everyone!

        Love,

        Caz
        X
        Last edited by caz; 01-13-2021, 11:41 AM.
        "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by caz View Post
          I already told you all I knew, Trev, via private message over on Howard Brown's forums, and you even replied!

          You can find the details in Ripper Diary, beginning on page 67.

          For everyone else, Scotland Yard's investigation was instigated by the Sunday Times. Two detectives from its Organised Crime Squad arrived in Liverpool on 20th October 1993 to interview a number of people connected with the diary. The investigation was trailed in the Daily Express of 5th October by journalist Stephen Grey, who continued to monitor the situation.

          Scotland Yard's task was to decide if the diary's publisher, Robert Smith, had knowingly tried to pass off a fake document as genuine. Led by the Yard's Detective Sergeant Thomas, known as "Bonesy" to his colleagues, the investigation included interviews with, among others, Mike Barrett, Tony Devereux's daughters, Paul Dodd and several electricians who had worked in Battlecrease. Robert Smith was finally interviewed by DS Thomas of Scotland Yard at Belgravia police station on 19th November 1993. [Did you not read my reply to you properly??]

          On 15th January 1994, the Liverpool Daily Post announced that the Crown Prosecution Service would be taking no further action against Robert Smith, deciding there was not enough evidence to have a realistic prospect of getting a conviction.

          I do wish you luck in getting the information you seek from the powers that be, Trev, and if you get anywhere it would be very useful if you could share it with everyone!

          Love,

          Caz
          X
          Thanks for this Caz, it certainly clears things up in my mind. Not sure why it doesn't Trevor's, unless he has something he wishes to share with the group?
          "When the legend becomes fact... print the legend"
          - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)

          Comment


          • #6
            You are most welcome, erobitha.

            Personally, I would love all the details of the SY investigation to be made freely available. However, I very much doubt they would shed the kind of light Trev is looking for.

            Love,

            Caz
            X
            "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by caz View Post
              I already told you all I knew, Trev, via private message over on Howard Brown's forums, and you even replied!

              You can find the details in Ripper Diary, beginning on page 67.

              For everyone else, Scotland Yard's investigation was instigated by the Sunday Times. Two detectives from its Organised Crime Squad arrived in Liverpool on 20th October 1993 to interview a number of people connected with the diary. The investigation was trailed in the Daily Express of 5th October by journalist Stephen Grey, who continued to monitor the situation.

              Scotland Yard's task was to decide if the diary's publisher, Robert Smith, had knowingly tried to pass off a fake document as genuine. Led by the Yard's Detective Sergeant Thomas, known as "Bonesy" to his colleagues, the investigation included interviews with, among others, Mike Barrett, Tony Devereux's daughters, Paul Dodd and several electricians who had worked in Battlecrease. Robert Smith was finally interviewed by DS Thomas of Scotland Yard at Belgravia police station on 19th November 1993. [Did you not read my reply to you properly??]

              On 15th January 1994, the Liverpool Daily Post announced that the Crown Prosecution Service would be taking no further action against Robert Smith, deciding there was not enough evidence to have a realistic prospect of getting a conviction.

              I do wish you luck in getting the information you seek from the powers that be, Trev, and if you get anywhere it would be very useful if you could share it with everyone!

              Love,

              Caz
              X
              Hi Caz
              Thank you for clearing up the ambigutiy surrounding which police force carried out the investigation. Rest assured if my request is successful I will of course share the results on such important issues.

              Its not looking to hopeful with the Met at this time denying all knowledge of any such investigation having taken place, hence the request for further information for the information commisioner to go back to them.

              From what I gather it seems there was no specific investiagtion of Barrett or any others connected to him but the investigation focussed on Robert Smith and the complaint from the Sunday Times

              If anyone else can add anything further please fee free to chip in

              www.trevormarriott.co.uk

              Comment


              • #8
                Morning Trev,

                You are welcome, but I don't know where the 'ambigutiy' came from. I gave you the same information via private message before you posted the same questions again here, and I have given you the name of the DS who led SY's investigation on at least two previous occasions. Maybe it's time to dust off your old police notebook and keep a record of the basic details!

                I wonder if the problem is related to how coherently you word your official requests and how often you ask them questions they have already addressed.

                Love,

                Caz
                X
                "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by caz View Post
                  Morning Trev,

                  You are welcome, but I don't know where the 'ambigutiy' came from. I gave you the same information via private message before you posted the same questions again here, and I have given you the name of the DS who led SY's investigation on at least two previous occasions. Maybe it's time to dust off your old police notebook and keep a record of the basic details!

                  I wonder if the problem is related to how coherently you word your official requests and how often you ask them questions they have already addressed.

                  Love,

                  Caz
                  X
                  The problem is that the Met Police are denying all knowledge of any such investigation. The questions I have asked on here and of you are relating to questions asked by the information commissioner who is now dealing with my request following the reply from the Met Police.

                  To much wondering in Ripperology is not a good form of excercise and is inclined to puggle ones brain

                  www.trevormarriott.co.uk

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Daily Express - 5th October 1993

                    Click image for larger version  Name:	Screenshot-2021-01-13-at-19.21.21.jpg Views:	0 Size:	227.3 KB ID:	749404
                    "When the legend becomes fact... print the legend"
                    - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      "But Robert Smith, managing director of publishers Smith Gryphon, said someone who faked the diary would have to be "a modern-day Leonardo da Vinci."

                      Modern-day? Did someone say something about modern-day? Does this qualify as a Freudian slip?


                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I wouldn't say so. Wasn't Robert merely addressing the claim being made at the time, by Melvin Harris among others, that the diary was a modern-day fake?

                        Reading too much between the lines again?
                        "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rjpalmer View Post
                          "But Robert Smith, managing director of publishers Smith Gryphon, said someone who faked the diary would have to be "a modern-day Leonardo da Vinci."

                          Modern-day? Did someone say something about modern-day? Does this qualify as a Freudian slip?

                          Old Lenny da Vinci lived from 1452-1519. Some 350+ years prior to James Maybrick for example. In context, Maybrick would be regarded as modern. He died in 1889, some 131 years ago this year. A mere 104 years before this article was written. If it was an old hoax it would still be modern vs Da Vinci, as much as if it was a 1992 hoax.
                          Last edited by erobitha; 01-16-2021, 09:17 PM.
                          "When the legend becomes fact... print the legend"
                          - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by erobitha View Post

                            Old Lenny da Vinci lived from 1452-1519. Some 350+ years prior to James Maybrick for example. In context, Maybrick would be regarded as modern. He died in 1889, some 131 years ago this year. A mere 104 years before this article was written. If it was an old hoax it would still be modern vs Da Vinci, as much as if it was a 1992 hoax.
                            Hmmm.... A modern-day Leonardo..... Where can we find a modern day Leonardo?.......


                            Click image for larger version  Name:	Leonardo da Bongo.GIF Views:	0 Size:	66.7 KB ID:	749493
                            Last edited by rjpalmer; 01-17-2021, 02:57 AM.

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