Meaning of "Held to Bail"

[Bridewell]

Looking at various definitions of the word 'hold' in the on-line dictionary, I note that one possibility is 'bind to a contract'. On that basis I suspect that 'held to bail' is the 19th century equivalent of the modern phrase 'admitted to bail' i.e. allowed bail. I'm at court tomorrow so - if I remember - I'll get a definitive answer from one of the legal advisors.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Trevor Marriott]

Looking at various definitions of the word 'hold' in the on-line dictionary, I note that one possibility is 'bind to a contract'. On that basis I suspect that 'held to bail' is the 19th century equivalent of the modern phrase 'admitted to bail' i.e. allowed bail. I'm at court tomorrow so - if I remember - I'll get a definitive answer from one of the legal advisors.

Regards, Bridewell.

Could it not mean held for bail pending pending sureties or recognizances being found ?

[Bridewell]

Hi Folks,

According to:

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/hold

In law:

To hold someone to bail is to bind someone by bail.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Bridewell]

Could it not mean held for bail pending pending sureties or recognizances being found ?

Hi Trevor,

That was my initial thought too, but apparently it just means to bail (see my last).

Regards, Bridewell.

[Jenni Shelden]

http://www.nytimes.com/1865/10/18/news/carpenters-and-their-wages-counter-feiter-held-to-bail-bogus-detective.html

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi Trevor,

That was my initial thought too, but apparently it just means to bail (see my last).

Regards, Bridewell.

But of course we do know that where bail was granted with sureties in some cases there was a time gap whereby the prisoner remained in custody whislt the sureties etc were checked out. That process took up to 48 hours in some cases.

I have heard the before I think. Wasnt there a two day gap between Tumbletys committal and him being bailed

[Chris]

From what you quote, "held to bail" could evidently refer to someone being bailed on condition that they attend a trial, but I think in the table Debs quoted that meaning must be excluded, and discharge, summary conviction/holding to bail and committal are considered to be three alternatives. (This is borne out by other examples available online where the numbers for those three add up to the total number of persons taken into custody.)

Perhaps this is wrong, then. Does "committal" here mean committal without bail?

[Debra A]

Thanks very much to everyone for the replies.
My internet access is a bit dodgy at the moment so I haven't been able to read and digest everything posted properly yet, but definitely will do.

[towboydds]

Held to bail, as what I have been lead to believe means that the person in question is being held to their bail, bail is not denied but enforced. ie. If you were given a 5k bail, then in the event you could not afford it, you would be "held" to bail. Your incarceration would continue till your trial had acquitted or convicted you, or other payment arrangements were met.

Hope this helps.

D.D.S.

[Errata]

It's the part where people plead guilty but were still held to bail that trips me up. As bail is an amount of money paid to not be in jail that is recouped when a person shows up for trial, that makes zero sense. If you plead guilty, you go straight to sentencing and no bail is offered. It's like they had to pay the money anyway, despite the fact that they were not going to secure a release. And I have no idea how that works.

[RivkahChaya]

"Held to bail" may just be a change of usage. We tend to say "Held on bail" in the US-- or at any rate, people say that in the north-east-- maybe it's not so common in the rest of the country, where "out on bail" is what people typically say. Usage in the UK may have changed recently from the influence of US TV, which tends to use the eastern "held on bail," on shows set in New York, New Jersey, Boston, Philadelphia, and soforth, which is about 80% of the crime/cop/lawyer shows.

It's the part where people plead guilty but were still held to bail that trips me up. ... And I have no idea how that works.

Two points: your plea at arraignment may be "guilty," but you don't proceed straight to sentencing for a felony. There will still be a hearing to determine mitigating factors, or penalty enhancements. Between arraignment and penalty hearing, most people who plead guilty either end of plea bargaining, or changing their plea-- it's for this reason that lawyers always advise pleading "not guilty" at arraignment.

Second, bail may be only cash only, or it might be bond. If it's a bond, you can put up something of value, and it doesn't have to equal the full amount-- you don't have to agree to sell it, either, just mortgage it, if it's real estate, for example. You can also go to a bondsman, and he will take typically 10% from you (which you won't get back, or won't get all of it), then will pledge to pay the courts the full amount if you don't show up, but doesn't have to give them cash up front.

Whether they accept bond depends on your resources, and if you have ever skipped on bail before. Also the seriousness of the crime.

Anyway, even people who plead guilty may get bail pending sentencing, and people who already have bail may have it continued until sentencing. If there's a chance you may get probation with a fine or community service, or house arrest, there's a good chance you will get bail pending sentencing. A lot of people on bail are monitored, and they are permitted to go to work and home, but that's it, or not to leave the city, things like that.

ETA: prepositions are completely arbitrary, sometimes. Try explaining to an ESL learner the difference between being "At the hospital," and "In the hospital."

[The Good Michael]

ETA: prepositions are completely arbitrary, sometimes. Try explaining to an ESL learner the difference between being "At the hospital," and "In the hospital."

Easy to do. It's the lack of definite article in the British speak that makes me crazy, i.e., In hospital, and which confuses ESLers.

Mike

[RivkahChaya]

Easy to do. It's the lack of definite article in the British speak that makes me crazy, i.e., In hospital, and which confuses ESLers.

Mike

So, if you've gone to the emergency room for stitches, are you "in the hospital," or "at the hospital"? That one tripped up as ESLer I knew.

[Cogidubnus]

In stitches

Hi Rivkah...I'd certainly regard that as "At the Hospital" - It's a casual one-off visit and you're going home afterwards.

If you've a bed there for the night, then you're "In Hospital".

That's certainly the way it is in my mind anyway...

All the best

Dave

[Bridewell]

As bail is an amount of money paid to not be in jail that is recouped when a person shows up for trial, that makes zero sense.

Bail, in the UK anyway, is not "an amount of money". It is release under an obligation to return at a later date. Conditions, including sureties, can be attached, but bail can also be unconditional.