Whitechapel Society Meeting 2nd August

[caz]

...she came across as a nutter on this site. She claimed to know who JtR was while at the same time giving intimate details and descriptions of the McCarthy family and Kelly herself.

Hi Jason, Mike,

Call me Mrs Gullible, but Fiona only has to prove she is really McCarthy's great granddaughter and that would surely make her a better authority on the intimate details and descriptions of her own family, and would make her potentially a better authority on Kelly herself, than any of the 'nutters' who have ever claimed to 'know' who JtR was, when publishing their ripper solutions. Head and shoulders above, I'd say.

Of course, even if McCarthy were found to have sworn on his son's life in his own blood that he (along with various associates) 'knows' who JtR was, you can rest assured that I would be among the first to curb Fiona's natural enthusiasm with: "Unless he was JtR himself, he only thought he knew". And that would hardly be the end of anyone's world - or come as any huge surprise either.

Debate may keep things moving - slowly when not round in circles. But voicing our natural scepticism at the very first opportunity, rather than keeping it under wraps, at least until the latest potential goldmine of information turns itself into another dung heap, seems like a potentially very backward move indeed.

It's Fiona's 'uphill battle' for believability, not yours or anyone else's. But if she does have a few genuine nuggets, that nobody in the family has revealed before because of just this kind of negative reaction (and worse), she could have been 'moved' to keep them to herself forever.

Sometimes I think people are more concerned with winning some imaginary lack of gullibility contest than with listening, learning and questioning. What's wrong with keeping outright scepticism to ourselves and letting nature take its course? Is it some inner need to broadcast that nobody can take you for a fool? Isn't it enough just to know that?

Love,

Caz
X

[The Good Michael]

Hi Mrs Gullible,

It was the behavior that made me skeptical and not the information. The only negative reactions were those she brought on herself because of the way she approached the subject.

Fiona's battle for credibility wouldn't have to have been a battle had she answered questions and posted more sensibly. All we have to go on in a thread is our ability to judge someone by what is typed. That's a shame, but that's how it is. Perhaps in person she would have come off better. Actually, I think we all might.

I'd still buy her book.

Cheers,

Mike

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
I would imagine 99 per cent of Casebook would buy Fiona's book.
However.
The original posts from Fiona's imput to Casebook, does indicate nothing more then a giant carrot, to intrest readers initially, and although I was unable to attend her talk [ which was my intention] it appears that the talk was based on a description of the McCarthy family[ intresting], however the word advertising does spring to mind, and although there is nothing wrong with financial gain, it is a shame that monetary gain cannot sometimes be cast aside for historical duty.
I have reservations, however I look forward to what could be intresting aspects.
Regards Richard.

[caz]

Hi Richard,

I may have this totally wrong, but Fiona came across as the total opposite of an impoverished author, who needs to make as much money as possible from her book. She even drew a winning ticket at the meeting but promptly gave her prize money back to WS1888 funds.

But I agree with what you say about her duty to the historical record. We'll have to see what she can come up with. She knows now what kind of reception she will get if her information boils down to McCarthy conjecture, but no evidence that he could have 'known' anything.

Love,

Caz
X

[Mike Covell]

I applaud anyone who comes forward with biographical details on any of the people associated with the case, and I look forward to the release of the book.

When is it out?

[coral]

Today I have had an email from Fiona who watches the Forums.

As she said to me - this was no publicity exercise. She did not say when the book would be published - she did not give the publishers name - she did not give the name of the book - she did not say under which name she would be writing the book.

And as for you who do not believe that she is who she says she is - she brought along her school reports etc - surely only a genuine oerson can do this. Must say that 'Fiona needed to do better'

But then again, you sceptics out there probably think she picked them up at a carboot sale!

Coral

[Jenni Shelden]

Coral,

I have no doubt Fiona was who she said she was. That doesnt mean I believe that all family stories are factually accurate and not prone to elaboration and distortion - not necesarily via lying.

Jenni

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
I also have no doubts that Fiona is genuine, however as a lifetime 'Ripper addict' I get frustrated with little snippits ie, McCarthys wife packed up Mjks belongings and forewarded it on to her family, also having seen her passport, and every one of her family [ McCarthys] knew who the killer was, and why he killed her.
The above information alone surely is of great intrest to the annuals of crime, and I for one if privileged, would not hesitate in relaying any such details to 'Casebook' and would freely be willing to debate with one and all, not do a runner after a couple of posts.
By all means write a book on the McCarthy clan for monetary, but any information that could reveal the killers identity in my opinion should be made public via 'Casebook' which dedicates itself to every aspect of the 'Whitechapel Murders'.
This post is not one of a little boy who can' wait for Xmas, but a firm conviction that evidence should not be concealed with a attitude ' All will be revealed' at least in due course.
Regards Richard.

[Salome]

Hi everyone,
I have been following this thread with interest as I remember the controversy surrounding Fiona Kendall's last appearance on Casebook. Can I just point out that Fiona Kendall is NOT the only surviving descendant of Jack McCarthy and indeed is not even the only surviving great-grandchild. Kim Campbell is still very much alive and kicking and, being at least twenty years older than Fiona, I would guess may have even more first-hand memories. Has Fiona ever mentioned her cousin Kim and whether she has been consulted about the family tales? Kim co-wrote a book about her sister Kay which tells us about a bit of the family history, I wonder why she has never felt the need to write another one as there seems to be so many anecdotes from the McCarthy/Kendall clan.

[anna]

Welcome to the Casebook,Salome!


I had no idea Fiona's authenticity was being discussed,as she had addressed the Whitechapel Society,I presumed all was correct.


Why is it people want to own up to being a relative of McCarthy,when he is described as a bully boy and an all around not very nice character.Although,if I remember correctly,when discussing Mary Kelly's rent arrears,Fiona pronounced that he allowed her to run up the bill,as he was a very nice man?

[caz]

Hi Anna,

I recall Fiona saying at the meeting that the reason McCarthy sent 'Indian Harry' round to collect some back rent on the morning that Mary's body was found was that he knew by then that she was back on the game and should have had some money for him. Apparently he kept an eye on who was coming and going in the court.

I suppose he would have guessed she was back on the game (which Fiona said was not in itself illegal) if he actually saw her taking men like Blotchy back to her room, or saw other men going there by themselves. Or maybe he just assumed that Joe had been gone long enough to make it necessary for Mary to earn her gin (or ginger beer) money in the usual manner.

Love,

Caz
X

[Salome]

Thanks for the welcome Anna. I'm not disputing Fiona Kendall's authenticity but I'm not sure that I am convinced that everything she says about her family is accurate. We all forget, confuse and embellish stories over time and a long, long time has passed since some of her stories took place. My grandmother told me stories about our family history that turned out not to be accurate or even true in some cases. What worries me is that Fiona Kendall doesn't seem to have any doubts about any of the information she has presented even though so much time has passed and most of the stories have been handed down to her. Do we know whether she has set about trying to check and authenticate her oral family history?

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
What is so frustrating about the Fiona saga, is just one remark she made in her initial posts, ie, His wife[ Mrs McCarthy] fiona's great grandmother, parcelled up Mjks belongings and sent them to her family.
This implies that the police, and the McCarthys knew who Marys family were , and their identification.
Surely any imformation that Fiona has on that score, is paramount to the Ripper case, and in my opinion would almost be a lottery win for serious researchers.
In fact any hearsay/oral history from her family would /could? be possibily a real jewel.
Regards Richard.

[claire]

Well, quite.
I'm quite sure she's related to the McCarthys. It's not the case in point. The problem for me is that Fiona appears to believe that proving her identity is tantamount to proving the stories. It isn't.

Mind you, I do love a good story, true or fictional...the way that family histories shift and change over time is just as interesting to me. With complete respect to Fiona, I'm inclined to wonder whether these stories aren't ways to canonise old uncle Joe given his slumlord rep...but since that in itself intrigues me, I'll be buying the book. If only Fiona wouldn't be so circumspect!!

[Stephen Thomas]

Can I just point out that Fiona Kendall is NOT the only surviving descendant of Jack McCarthy and indeed is not even the only surviving great-grandchild. Kim Campbell is still very much alive and kicking and, being at least twenty years older than Fiona, I would guess may have even more first-hand memories. Has Fiona ever mentioned her cousin Kim and whether she has been consulted about the family tales?

In her wonderful talk, Fiona did mention a much older relative who had given her the go-ahead to talk about the family history