A Brothel in Cardiff

[miss marple]

I have been looking at Brothels in Cardiff.The city seems to have been a hotbed of vice, drunkeness, disorderly conduct etc and a large Irish population. Bute St was quite notorious.

I was going to list various brothels, but I am focussing on one in particular, which got me quite intrigued, another strange coincidence in the saga of Mary Kelly.
One of the Census entries about Welsh Mary's was the family at 19 Homfrey St Cardiff.1881 Father John Kelly 55 gen labourer mother Margaret 57 both born Ireland. Helen daug 24, John 19 son and boarders. Mary Ann Kelly age 16 no occupation? is living with them.
On December 8th 1883 Mary Davies, a woman, well known to the police was charged with keeping a house of ill fame at 1 Homfray St. She lived in a house opposite where she keep a close eye on the brothel. She was described by the police as a very acute woman. The whole one of one side of Homfrey st were brothels. Davies was sentenced to six months with hard labour.
Coincidence or what? Is this part of the fabric by which MK weaves her backstory?

Miss Marple

[GUT]

And Davies???

[miss marple]

I dont think MK was Davies, the timeline does not fit but MK may have worked for her and 'borrowed' the name. The Davies name is too much of a coincidence. MK does not have the profile or success to be a brothel keeper. They were hard women who made serious money.

Miss Marple

[GUT]

I dont think MK was Davies, the timeline does not fit but MK may have worked for her and 'borrowed' the name. The Davies name is too much of a coincidence. MK does not have the profile or success to be a brothel keeper. They were hard women who made serious money.

Miss Marple

Maybe, just maybe, the brothel keeper was a relative of the husband. That of course is IF there was any truth in the story.

[miss marple]

Yes Gut, that is another possiblity. I am researching this Mary D. If she had a relative who died in an explosion that would be gold dust. MK does not need to be married to him[ as there is no record] she just needs to have a connection with the story eg know about it.
As there are hundreds of davies it won't be easy!

Miss Marple

[GUT]

Yes Gut, that is another possiblity. I am researching this Mary D. If she had a relative who died in an explosion that would be gold dust. MK does not need to be married to him[ as there is no record] she just needs to have a connection with the story eg know about it.
As there are hundreds of davies it won't be easy!

Miss Marple

I admire the work you, and a few others have one.

My genealogical research has mainly related to family history, where I am working from a known person, what you do seems to me a bit like looking for a needle in a haystack. Trying t find a person who loosly fits a story.

And I agree they need not be legally married.

[miss marple]

It is looking for a needle in a haystack. My approach is looking to see what is plausible in her story [ so far most of it is] and just hoping some connections may start to make sense. MK may not have been her real name but if her story is more or less true give or take a few porkies, a pattern may immerge.

Miss Marple

[Elamarna]

I dont think MK was Davies, the timeline does not fit but MK may have worked for her and 'borrowed' the name. The Davies name is too much of a coincidence. MK does not have the profile or success to be a brothel keeper. They were hard women who made serious money.

Miss Marple

Hi Miss Marple,

The Davies name was/is very common in Wales, you say so yourself:

As there are hundreds of davies it won't be easy!


Therefore I do not see that it is "too much of a coincidence" at all.

However, I really admire the research, do keep at it, something may turn up, which would give the much needed link to the woman in Millers Court

regards

Steve

[Wickerman]

It is looking for a needle in a haystack. My approach is looking to see what is plausible in her story [ so far most of it is] and just hoping some connections may start to make sense. MK may not have been her real name but if her story is more or less true give or take a few porkies, a pattern may immerge.

Miss Marple

You didn't mention if this Mary Davies had a son, or a male relative?, of approximately the same age as Mary Kelly.

[MrBarnett]

I have been looking at Brothels in Cardiff.The city seems to have been a hotbed of vice, drunkeness, disorderly conduct etc and a large Irish population. Bute St was quite notorious.

I was going to list various brothels, but I am focussing on one in particular, which got me quite intrigued, another strange coincidence in the saga of Mary Kelly.
One of the Census entries about Welsh Mary's was the family at 19 Homfrey St Cardiff.1881 Father John Kelly 55 gen labourer mother Margaret 57 both born Ireland. Helen daug 24, John 19 son and boarders. Mary Ann Kelly age 16 no occupation? is living with them.
On December 8th 1883 Mary Davies, a woman, well known to the police was charged with keeping a house of ill fame at 1 Homfray St. She lived in a house opposite where she keep a close eye on the brothel. She was described by the police as a very acute woman. The whole one of one side of Homfrey st were brothels. Davies was sentenced to six months with hard labour.
Coincidence or what? Is this part of the fabric by which MK weaves her backstory?

Miss Marple

Hi Miss Marple,

This one was born in Cardiff, though. The family were at are at the same address in 1871, and Mary is again shown as being born in Cardiff, although her age is given as 4. The father is a coal ????. Also at no. 19 is a family named Flynn. The head, Timothy is employed at an iron works and two doors away is a family named McCarthy Coincidences? I would have thought so.

In 1885 a woman named Mary Barnett was convicted of running a brothel in Davis Street, Cardiff.

More coincidences than you can shake a stick at.

Gary

[miss marple]

Davies, Kellys thousands of them but am researching Mary Davies

Will keep you all posted if Mary Davies brothel keeper, yields anything interesting from the research.


Miss Marple












ifWill

[miss marple]

This is what I have got so far: Mary Davies age 40 was living at no 1 Homfray St in 1881. She is living with her husband David Davies age 46, a boiler maker and three children, Elizabeth age 19 [ married husband at sea] and grand daughter Martha age three months,Thomas age 14 and James age 12. Davies was not the father of the children, she married him in Cardiff in 1870. In the 71 census the children are described as stepchildren and Mary Davies first husband was Chandler.No1 is the house that was a brothel by 1883 and Davies living opposite. The whole of one side of the street had a reputation for brothels, even as late as the 1890s.

At number 3 is another Davies, Thomas, a seaman age 23, unmarried living with his mother Harriet and sister.

At number 19 is the 16 year old Mary Ann Kelly, daughter of John, a labourer.
Yes I know she was born in Cardiff but her parents were born in Ireland. She has gone by the 91 census. So there are as many Kellys and Davies as fish in the sea, buuutt for weaving a story out of knowns and unknowns. There is enough there.

I am looking into the first marriage of Davies.

Miss Marple

[SuspectZero]

This is what I have got so far: Mary Davies age 40 was living at no 1 Homfray St in 1881. She is living with her husband David Davies age 46, a boiler maker and three children, Elizabeth age 19 [ married husband at sea] and grand daughter Martha age three months,Thomas age 14 and James age 12. Davies was not the father of the children, she married him in Cardiff in 1870. In the 71 census the children are described as stepchildren and Mary Davies first husband was Chandler.No1 is the house that was a brothel by 1883 and Davies living opposite. The whole of one side of the street had a reputation for brothels, even as late as the 1890s.

At number 3 is another Davies, Thomas, a seaman age 23, unmarried living with his mother Harriet and sister.

At number 19 is the 16 year old Mary Ann Kelly, daughter of John, a labourer.
Yes I know she was born in Cardiff but her parents were born in Ireland. She has gone by the 91 census. So there are as many Kellys and Davies as fish in the sea, buuutt for weaving a story out of knowns and unknowns. There is enough there.

I am looking into the first marriage of Davies.

Miss Marple

Hi Miss Marple,
The 1871 Mary Davies you mention may not be the same as the one in the 1881 Census. In 1871 her husband David Davies was 43 and born in Llandaff, Glamorganshire, Wales. In 1881 the children seem to have adopted the name Davies but the father David has stopped time because he is only 46 when he should be 53. He is also listed as being born in Newport, different from the David of 1871. While Mary is showing the right age (40) and the right birth location, and the children's first names are the same, except they've lost the Chandler designation. Any thoughts on this?

[miss marple]

There is a different birth for Davies and age but that is not significant, in 71 census it is struck though, ther are often mistakes in age and birthplace. Mary has the same birthplace in both censuses,the children, Elizabeth, Thomas and James match exactly in both census in age and birthplace and Davies occupation is the same in both census

Mary Ann Chandler was convicted of running a brothel in Bridge st Cardiff on 22 Feb 1868, as she refused to give it up she was sentenced to one month with hard labour. When married to Davies she is running a brothel in Homfrey st later . She was a persistant offender. When she married Davies in 1870 as the children were described as step children in 71 census, the Chandler name was put down. By 81 the boys were Davies and the daughter was married.There is nothing complicated about it. Its quite straightfoward.

Miss Marple

[MysterySinger]

Any idea what happened to Elizabeth Davies?