Pierre's research so far...

[curious4]

I'd be happy to, and would certainly be "taking it easy" if you had done so in the first place.



I hoped you would notice. But notice also that while I criticized your conduct, I have not engaged in personal attacks of any kind. I have addressed you directly, not gone behind your back, and have been completely honest with you.


And C4, I may be new to this forum in particular, but I am not new to forums in general. I have engaged in online discussions since the inception of the internet, a member of many years on several forums, and am very well aware of the various types of posters. Claiming I am more likely to be fooled (by Pierre, as you imply) tells me that you are under the misunderstanding that this is about Pierre. It isn't. It's about the people who find this kind of thread an acceptable response. I don't care whether Pierre is a genuine poster or a troll - either way, it is the wrong reaction. In the case of the former, it is extremely bad form. In the case of the latter, you're just feeding the troll. And in either case, threads like this inevitably make the forums less pleasant.

Hello Karl

Didn't mean to sound patronising. Let me put it this way. You have four pound notes. Someone you don't know offers you a five pound note for your four. You have never seen a fiver close up and can't judge if it is genuine. The person who wants to exchange says "I can't show you another note to prove this is ok as I only have threequarters of a five pound note, but will have the missing piece in a year's time. He then proceeds to tell you how much he knows in general and particularly about five pound notes. Would you swap?

All we are asking is for Pierre to put his money where his mouth is.

And for the record, the chance of one piece of evidence proving conclusively who the killer was is miniscule.

I think this thread is necessary, so that we can air our concerns.

Best wishes
C4

[Karl]

Aye Karl, why don't you just take it easy?

I'd be happy to, and would certainly be "taking it easy" if you had done so in the first place.

Look who's attacking someone now, hm.

I hoped you would notice. But notice also that while I criticized your conduct, I have not engaged in personal attacks of any kind. I have addressed you directly, not gone behind your back, and have been completely honest with you.


And C4, I may be new to this forum in particular, but I am not new to forums in general. I have engaged in online discussions since the inception of the internet, a member of many years on several forums, and am very well aware of the various types of posters. Claiming I am more likely to be fooled (by Pierre, as you imply) tells me that you are under the misunderstanding that this is about Pierre. It isn't. It's about the people who find this kind of thread an acceptable response. I don't care whether Pierre is a genuine poster or a troll - either way, it is the wrong reaction. In the case of the former, it is extremely bad form. In the case of the latter, you're just feeding the troll. And in either case, threads like this inevitably make the forums less pleasant.

[curious4]

If you think that Pierre is just messing with us - or trolling - then why create a thread drawing more attention to him? If you think he is simply winding you up, then don't be wound up. Ignore him.

And if you think this is a matter for the admins, contact them directly.



And this is all because of Pierre? I'm new here, and I haven't let Pierre's presence affect my enjoyment of these boards in the slightest. Threads like this, however, leave me with a bitter taste in my mouth. Your OP here is just unrefined hostility, and that is something which certainly ruins my enjoyment of these boards.

I also cannot wrap my mind around how you can claim this thread was not a personal attack. The title: "Pierre's research so far..." with a thumbs down. This alone says enough. Then the text itself:


First of all, a very antagonistic way of saying you believe he is winding you up - which isn't even what you are suggesting here. Based on what you said, I thought you were calling him inept. Straight language works best, and I see no reason for your choice of words except to make fun of him. And to publicly call for an admin to "end this nonsense" just strikes me as impertinent.

Now, in a challenge of empathy, I ask myself: what would it take for me to create such a thread? I would have to have it in for a person, and in a big way. And my intention would have been public ridicule. There is no way I could post something like this with the intention of being constructive. And this is compacted by the fact that there is already a thread on this subforum called "Pierre and his research", where you could have posted - but chose not to. You can't have missed it, it's a 7-pager still high up on the first forum page. So why create another thread about Pierre? To make sure that the admins saw your request? But why could that not be accomplished through proper channels? To me it seems like you wanted others in on the game, to come point and jeer with you. And it seems you have had some success with that. You certainly haven't discouraged anyone from joining in.

People are different, but I'll say it again: Pierre has done nothing to ruin my enjoyment of these boards. You, on the other hand, have.

Hello Karl

As you say, you are new and won't have much experience of the pre-Pierre boards. And also more likely to be fooled. Sorry.

C4

[JadenCollins]

If you think that Pierre is just messing with us - or trolling - then why create a thread drawing more attention to him? If you think he is simply winding you up, then don't be wound up. Ignore him.

And if you think this is a matter for the admins, contact them directly.



And this is all because of Pierre? I'm new here, and I haven't let Pierre's presence affect my enjoyment of these boards in the slightest. Threads like this, however, leave me with a bitter taste in my mouth. Your OP here is just unrefined hostility, and that is something which certainly ruins my enjoyment of these boards.

I also cannot wrap my mind around how you can claim this thread was not a personal attack. The title: "Pierre's research so far..." with a thumbs down. This alone says enough. Then the text itself:


First of all, a very antagonistic way of saying you believe he is winding you up - which isn't even what you are suggesting here. Based on what you said, I thought you were calling him inept. Straight language works best, and I see no reason for your choice of words except to make fun of him. And to publicly call for an admin to "end this nonsense" just strikes me as impertinent.

Now, in a challenge of empathy, I ask myself: what would it take for me to create such a thread? I would have to have it in for a person, and in a big way. And my intention would have been public ridicule. There is no way I could post something like this with the intention of being constructive. And this is compacted by the fact that there is already a thread on this subforum called "Pierre and his research", where you could have posted - but chose not to. You can't have missed it, it's a 7-pager still high up on the first forum page. So why create another thread about Pierre? To make sure that the admins saw your request? But why could that not be accomplished through proper channels? To me it seems like you wanted others in on the game, to come point and jeer with you. And it seems you have had some success with that. You certainly haven't discouraged anyone from joining in.

People are different, but I'll say it again: Pierre has done nothing to ruin my enjoyment of these boards. You, on the other hand, have.

Aye Karl, why don't you just take it easy?

Look who's attacking someone now, hm.

If you have a problem with my thread, please report it.

I'm not gonna waste my time explaining myself.

I already said what I had to say.

[Karl]

This thread wasn't a personal attack and I'm sorry if it seemed like it.
I just got a bad feeling that Pierre's just messing with us.
I wanted to point that out.
And I wonder why the admin hasn't done anything against it.

If you think that Pierre is just messing with us - or trolling - then why create a thread drawing more attention to him? If you think he is simply winding you up, then don't be wound up. Ignore him.

And if you think this is a matter for the admins, contact them directly.

I used to love being on here, reading threads, communicating with others.
But because of that, I don't feel like logging in anymore, I'm barely here.
It sucks that one person can actually ruin your passion for something.

And this is all because of Pierre? I'm new here, and I haven't let Pierre's presence affect my enjoyment of these boards in the slightest. Threads like this, however, leave me with a bitter taste in my mouth. Your OP here is just unrefined hostility, and that is something which certainly ruins my enjoyment of these boards.

I also cannot wrap my mind around how you can claim this thread was not a personal attack. The title: "Pierre's research so far..." with a thumbs down. This alone says enough. Then the text itself:

Loading...
Loading...
Useless hints...
Still loading...
No actual data...
Pointless Threads...
Plot twist; he's got nothing...

Can the admin please end this nonsense?

First of all, a very antagonistic way of saying you believe he is winding you up - which isn't even what you are suggesting here. Based on what you said, I thought you were calling him inept. Straight language works best, and I see no reason for your choice of words except to make fun of him. And to publicly call for an admin to "end this nonsense" just strikes me as impertinent.

Now, in a challenge of empathy, I ask myself: what would it take for me to create such a thread? I would have to have it in for a person, and in a big way. And my intention would have been public ridicule. There is no way I could post something like this with the intention of being constructive. And this is compacted by the fact that there is already a thread on this subforum called "Pierre and his research", where you could have posted - but chose not to. You can't have missed it, it's a 7-pager still high up on the first forum page. So why create another thread about Pierre? To make sure that the admins saw your request? But why could that not be accomplished through proper channels? To me it seems like you wanted others in on the game, to come point and jeer with you. And it seems you have had some success with that. You certainly haven't discouraged anyone from joining in.

People are different, but I'll say it again: Pierre has done nothing to ruin my enjoyment of these boards. You, on the other hand, have.

[curious4]

This thread wasn't a personal attack and I'm sorry if it seemed like it.
I just got a bad feeling that Pierre's just messing with us.
I wanted to point that out.
And I wonder why the admin hasn't done anything against it.

I used to love being on here, reading threads, communicating with others.
But because of that, I don't feel like logging in anymore, I'm barely here.
It sucks that one person can actually ruin your passion for something.

Hello Jaden

You put it very well. I feel the same way and it is sad.

Best wishes
C4

[JadenCollins]

This thread wasn't a personal attack and I'm sorry if it seemed like it.
I just got a bad feeling that Pierre's just messing with us.
I wanted to point that out.
And I wonder why the admin hasn't done anything against it.

I used to love being on here, reading threads, communicating with others.
But because of that, I don't feel like logging in anymore, I'm barely here.
It sucks that one person can actually ruin your passion for something.

[JadenCollins]

Hello again Jaden

As it happens I would count you as one of the brighter posters on these boards.

Best wishes
C4

Hey C4!
My bad, I thought you meant it as bad thing.

[Karl]

May I remind you both, C4 and Richard, that this is a thread about Pierre, in which Pierre has yet to post a single word, and moreover a thread in which absolutely no Ripper-related discussion is taking place whatsoever which has nevertheless reached its third page and as such is only helping to clog the boards, as you say - and you are still blaming Pierre.

Pierre is perfectly easy to ignore, and I do not even have him on my ignore list. What sticks out as a sore thumb, however, is threads like this one. And such threads are poison to any forum, because 1) they encourage personal attacks, and 2) their continued presence communicates that such an atmosphere is allowed.

You referred to written and unwritten rules, curious4. I refer you to major rules 7 and 8:

7. Do not engage in trolling behavior. For the purposes of these forums, trolling is defined as any behavior that disrupts a thread. If you believe a thread is too silly, stupid or offensive to be discussed seriously, ignore it. Remember, just because you don't find a topic worthy of serious discussion, doesn't mean there aren't others who do. Disrupting someone's thread with inflammatory or off-topic posts is trolling. Abide by the OP's stated intentions in starting the thread. This does not mean you can't take issue with the thread or point out silliness or flaws in the topic as long as your posts are on topic. Pouring ridicule on anyone who wishes to discuss the topic, is not on-topic.

Emphasis only partially mine. The underlined bit is underlined in the rules, as well. And this thread is, in its entirety, completely off-topic. This board is the General Discussion board for Ripper discussions, not Pierre discussions. It isn't even on topic for Pierre discussions, were there such a board, as it is nothing more than an invitation for mud-slinging, not even directed at Pierre but to the admins with a request to have him banned!

Now, rule #8 is particularly relevant:

8. Do not engage in personal attacks of posters.

Personal Attacks Policy:

If you are not sure what constitutes a personal attack, as a general rule anything with the pronouns "you" or "your" that is not a compliment should just be avoided. If a negative statement is about the person and not the topic, it constitutes an attack. "This idea is silly" is not a personal attack. "Your silly idea" or "You keep repeating the same silly ideas...." is.

Remove the personal from your statements. If a poster makes a single mild attacking post that says something like "you are being ridiculous" they probably will not receive an infraction for a single slip. It happens, let's agree to be grown ups. However if they make several "mild" attacks in a single thread and have a general attacking/snide tone, that is worth reporting. Persistent mild attacks grow to serious, significant attacks and turns into sniping matches as opposed to on-topic, valuable conversations.

Convoluted means of attacking someone will be considered attacks. Like pornography, we know it when we see it.
Any attempt to circumvent the rules and insult or defame a poster by not naming them, but including them in a collective group like "people who..." or "members of a group of Ripperologists" or "the cabal/cartel" conspiracy is ... will earn double infraction points. Insulting someone and attempting to get out of the penalty by being shady is double the offense.

Responding to someone's personal attack with a personal attack of your own will still earn you an infraction. "S/he started it" is not an excuse.

All of the above. And the very last bit: "S/he started it" is not an excuse. And in this case, Pierre has been perfectly civil in every post of his I have come across. And still I hear that he is to blame, for no better reason than he rubs you the wrong way.

And this goes very much against unwritten rules of conduct as well. No one who has used this thread as an excuse to attack Pierre is wearing the white hat in this case. In this thread I remarked that the thread looked to me to have but one function: a pillory. And I suspected then that as pillories drew crowds, so might we see further threads in the same vein. This is what I referred to in my first post in this thread: if a building suffers a smashed window, and is allowed to remain broken, this signals an OK for kids to smash the building's other windows.

I wouldn't even bother to mention these things on the IMDb, because that place so full of this kind of thread that there really is no point in even trying. But I hope these boards, not being as massive as the IMDb boards, are better. IMDb standards are nothing to strive for.

[richardnunweek]

I agree entirely with C4..what ever happened to the actual discussions on the Ripper case,presentation that everyone can understand, and either agree /disagree with..
To a old timer like myself, in both membership , and actual age, I would rejoice in a return to the old format...and lets talk realism.
Regards Richard

[curious4]

Hello Karl and JM,

You are both right, of course, but it is difficult to refrain from venting one's frustration when presented with an opportunity.
There are both written rules (which we are bound by) and unwritten rules (by which most of us abide) on this site. It is a site for discussion, presentation of new finds and new ideas. These are posted, discussed and the source (if there is one) revealed. An unwritten rule is that questions are put and answered. This makes for a good and healthy debate. Pierre's refusal to answer a straight question with a straight answer is both rude and hard to understand.

While early on in his posts Pierre seemed to know little about the case, he has quickly gained a superficial knowledge, seemingly by both trawling the Casebook and by what I would call some expert phishing. His questions seemed to me designed to cull knowledge from other posters. (Fairly early on I blocked him but from snippets on other posts this was the impression I got, right or wrong).

I was pulled up for criticising his "silliness". I would not call his answer to me silly but I have no patience with New Age flummery.

I am fairly sure that he has not, nor will have anything to offer and I do blame him for clogging up the boards with his pontifications unsupported by any evidence.

De profundis
C4

[jmenges]

So far Pierre has inspired two derogatory threads in the same subforum, and I do not see how this is warranted no matter what you may otherwise think of the man.

At the very least this should have been started in Pub Talk as I see a distinct lack of "General Discussion" on the Whitechapel murders going on here.

If a someone created a thread every time they thought another thread or poster was silly then the owners of the site would have to buy a skyscraper to house the server space necessary to keep the boards afloat.

JM

[Karl]

I'm guessing it's because Pierre posts things like "a fact is not a fact".

C4

I haven't been here long, but I have come across a few other posters of the same calibre. Like I said, the ignore function can be pretty useful. So far Pierre has inspired two derogatory threads in the same subforum, and I do not see how this is warranted no matter what you may otherwise think of the man. What you are saying here, for example, is nothing short of "he deserves it because he says stupid stuff". It may serve as an explanation, but as an excuse it is appalling.

Threads like this is what you frequently come across on the "Politics" and "Religion" forums on IMDb, and that is hardly flattering.

[Brenda]

.

[curious4]

I'm guessing it's because Pierre has been a popular target of late. It's like the windows of a derelict office building: If just one window is smashed, and it is allowed to stay that way, it is going to greatly increase the chances of more windows being smashed. It has been tacitly marked as a building where smashing windows is ok.

I'm guessing it's because Pierre posts things like "a fact is not a fact".

C4