The 120 year old trail is freezing

[Mike Covell]

The trail is only as cold or as warm as you make it.

In the past two years I have discovered a wealth of primary sources on Robert D'Onston Stephenson and his family, including magistrate papers, lunatic asylum records, BMD documents, newspaper articles, and so much more! My chronology is over 100 pages long with over 1,500 entries, all fully referenced and sourced.

I found the magistrates papers for Frederick Bailey Deeming's trial in Hull which had him sentenced to imprisonment in Hull Jail.

And I have a collection of over 1,000 newpsper reports on the case from Hull Newspapers. One of which mentions a Hull Ripper letter, which was sent to a Hull Newspaper office.

I have spoken with relatives of the Deeming Family and Stephenson Family, and been approached by people claiming to related to other suspects, but their credentials do not fall into what is known, and it appears they are after their 5 minutes of fame!!

None of this will help ascertain who the ripper was, but it helps put little pieces into the bigger picture!

There are so many people who post on this site who are doing great work in helping to create a bigger picture, Stewart P Evans, Andrew Aspellak, Philip Hutchinson, Chris Scott, and many many more.

[dougie]

Have Druitts descendants ever been interviewed in depth about any rumours that may have been "handed down" to them?Leaving aside the matter of whether Druitt was the Ripper or not,surely if Macnaughton was apparently so certain,I cant imagine that Druitts family wasnt aware of the suspicion cast on montague at the time,and equally I cant believe that that info wasnt spoken about within the Druitt family and indeed handed down through the subsequent generations.The "silence" could indeed speak volumes.My feeling is that there is much still to be discovered,just that the right "key" is still to be found.maybe just different trains of thought are required.
regards

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

The trail is only as cold or as warm as you make it.

[...]

None of this will help ascertain who the ripper was, but it helps put little pieces into the bigger picture!

There are so many people who post on this site who are doing great work in helping to create a bigger picture, Stewart P Evans, Andrew Aspellak, Philip Hutchinson, Chris Scott, and many many more.

Exactly, Mike. Just my point.

I assume, however, that when one is speaking the 'trail' being hot or cold one is referring to the trail of the killer and the possibility to solve the case (and believe me, there are still people out there who believe it is possible to name the killer after 120 years). If not, I don't understand the usage of the expresssion here.
But yes - I definitely agree with what you say.
Those are the kinds of evidence we can uncover and further explore today, not evidence dispalying who the killer was.

All the best

[celee]

Hi,

I feel that the solution has already been offered. However, it has not been proven conclusivly. I doubt anyone will prove who Jack the Ripper was, to everyones satisfaction, even if they found the bloody knife.

Your friend, Brad

[jason_c]

Glenn, thanks for the info. I recall seeing the pic of Hanbury Street. The Lawende photo i havent yet seen.

[Investigator]

Glen Hi,
For many years I have observed your lively contribution among others you mention (without entering the debate) and I see that many issues keep returning for discussion without any conclusion being reached. you wrote "it will continue to be documentation or items that provides us with additional information about persons, places or specific incidents related to the Ripper case" . Very true, but if we are unable to interpret and correlate the data obtained, it just adds to the plethora of information that adds "noise' to understanding the behavioural relationship in its context. Many debates in the forum are struggles to interpret the information already available. As you know, "facts" are interpretable from different perspectives and are like the two witches faces that can be perceived as a vase. Only when facts (data) can be replicated or triangulated from multiple souces and their relationship established to the context, will the Ripper case make some sense. When it does the "Ripper" and the women he killed can rest in peace, but in the meantime they remain grits for the mill.

[Sasha]

Although I agree in principal with the intentions voiced by the posters above, I think the old notion that the 'case glorifies the killer too much' and that 'people don't remember the victims' is an old tired myth, and today also very inaccurate.
The notion was certainly true in the old days (at least before the 1980s) but to state such things today is like repeating that the world is flat. Enormous efforts have been done by a large number of researchers and authors in order to give life to the victims and to really focus on their situation and personal histories. In short, to make such statements is kind of like throwing a cake in the face of honest and hard working researchers like Neil Sheldon Stubbings, Chris Scott and others.

I would have to acknowledge your superior knowledge here. I guess I'm responding to the few threads I've been a party to since joining recently and perhaps they are not representative of most people. These 'outliers' have suggested that the victims contributed to their own deaths because of how the "chose" to live - including that they chose to be alcoholics (which some have asserted is not a disease but a lifestyle choice) and that they had better options in the East End in Victorian England to earn their living. For me that's like saying a rape victim deserved what she got because she wasn't wearing a burka. But, hey, that's just an opinion. The other thing that bothers me is that some people only remember how the victims died and for me it's a very sad statement that the only thing we can remember about a person is his or her death. Just an opinion.

As for these things insulting researchers and their efforts in resurrecting the victims and their lives, sure that is a point. I would have thought though - and again just an opinion - that researchers in this field would object to the statement that we will never find the truth about JTR would be more disheartening. Even after such a long time since it happened, I at least hope that through combined efforts, we might shed light on the case. But, hey, I'm a newbie full of hopes that it is possible.

[Flagg]

Personally, I believe someone out there has the identity of JtR stuffed in their attic or basement. I think this case will be solved, but I don't know when and I don't know how. Don't you love the optimist?

[Sasha]

Personally, I believe someone out there has the identity of JtR stuffed in their attic or basement. I think this case will be solved, but I don't know when and I don't know how. Don't you love the optimist?

Yeah, Flagg, I'm with you. A death bed confession or diary perhaps? Someone who was so imfamous surely would want to go to his maker saying he was the guy who got away with it!

[CraigInTwinCities]

...A death bed confession or diary perhaps?...

NO! No more diaries, please!
NO! No more diaries, please!
NO! No more diaries, please!
NO! No more diaries, please!
NO! No more diaries, please!
NO! No more diaries, please!
NO! No more diaries, please!
NO! No more diaries, please!
NO! No more diaries, please!
NO! No more diaries, please!
NO! No more diaries, please!
NO! No more diaries, please!

[Sasha]

NO! No more diaries, please!
NO! No more diaries, please!
NO! No more diaries, please!
NO! No more diaries, please!
NO! No more diaries, please!
NO! No more diaries, please!
NO! No more diaries, please!
NO! No more diaries, please!
NO! No more diaries, please!
NO! No more diaries, please!
NO! No more diaries, please!
NO! No more diaries, please!

So what's your point Craig? LOL
Sasha

[The Prophet]

New Book

SURPRISE!!

“Celebrating 120 years of
Murder mystery since
Jack first killed.”

WORLD EXCLUSIVE!!

I am privileged to announce that the identity of Jack the Ripper is none-other than Doctor Thomas John Barnardo (1845-1905). Unbelievable right? Read on…

I have held that secret for far too long, and now as a World Exclusive I am publishing all that is known later this year – through which more is likely to be uncovered…

During my near two-decade investigation, the most devastating occurrence happened out of the blue – Diana, Princess of Wales, her lover Dodi Al Fayed, and their driver were killed when their car crashed in a tunnel in Paris!

I of course was one of many millions who mourned her death, but with that aside, I would eventually uncover who organised her death.

Royal assassinations have marked particular climaxes in all eras of history – Diana’s is no exception. However, those responsible for her death should know, and will soon realize that such assassinations bear consequences that are out of their control.

Diana was president of children’s charity ‘Barnardos’, for nearly 13 years. When she abruptly resigned as their president shortly before her divorce from Prince Charles was finalized in August 1996, she had just over 1 year to live!

During that time the organisation (amongst others), tried to coax her back repeatedly, even though she teamed back up temporally with the ‘Red Cross’ (another dropped charity) on her land-mine campaign, she would never go back to Barnardos…ever.

When she was killed, the Barnardos organisation for the first time in its history, and out of respect for the dead Princess, decided not to replace its president. That was until 2001 when Cherie Blair, the wife of then UK Prime Minister Tony Blair was formally asked to fill the role as president…

Originally an explosive chapter on Diana’s assassination titled “The 13th President”, was cut from my soon-to-be published book “My Search For Jack: The Ultimate Truth”, by A.J Prophet (2008). Now that chapter has been re-titled and enlarged, and will be privately published as a separate book and available to the public after the Beijing Olympics in September 2008 – order your copy now from here –

(ebay - Death of the 13th President)


Ever since this web-site was up and running in 1996, I have wanted to tell the world that the identity of ‘Jack’ was someone very close to the original investigation…but I waited. Then when Diana was killed it precipitated a change in direction that led me to uncover the most sinister plan to do away with her – this will shock the world!!

As a pre-launch to “My Search For Jack: The Ultimate Truth”, by A.J Prophet, I have listed also on ebay the book that the killer wrote while murdering his victims – this is bound to cause controversy! Hopefully some lucky Ripperologist or enthusiast of the crimes will get to own this very rare book!

I am happy to answer any questions where time allows me, thank you and god bless.

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

I would have thought though - and again just an opinion - that researchers in this field would object to the statement that we will never find the truth about JTR would be more disheartening. Even after such a long time since it happened, I at least hope that through combined efforts, we might shed light on the case.

Sasha,

Shed light on the case is one thing, solving it quite another.
Read my lips: no unsolved case that is over 100 years old can be solved!
There are several reasons for this:

1) In the old days the police didn't record facts in the same way the authorites do today, and the lack of forensic knowledge also brought on that phyiscal evidence was lost already a few weeks after any murder would occur. In short, there is lack of sufficient facts about the investigation with too many factual holes in it, not to mention a total lack of physical evidence.

2) As I have said hundred times before (one wonders when this reality actually will sink in with a lot of people): No doubt a number of important and previously unknown documents will continue to surface, but they will only make way for further theorizing, as the others have done - they might shed some light on some of the context or detailed incidents but not on the case as a whole.
Again: we've already seen a number of important documents appearing, like the Macnaghten memoranda, the Swanson marginalia, Anderson's and Abberline's statements (naming suspects) and the Littlechild letter.

In spite of these documents, the question marks remain and they have actually only managed to confuse the case further rather than solving it. If these 'evidence' from people who actually had high positions in the police force at the time, hasn't managed to convince the majority of researchers or provide a final solutions, what on earth will?

Please people, grow up.
Regardless of what document or written 'evidence' that is lying around in an unknown archive or a family trunk, it will NEVER constitute enough evidence in order to convince or unite all experts or researchers in the field.
Obviously the police of 1888 hadn't a unified view on the identity of the killer, and since they didn't solve it, nor can we 120 years after the event.

As for the murdered women: once again - for the last two decades dedicated researchers have tried to go to great length to show who those women really were as persons and how they lead their lives.
Anyone who for some reasons is upset about them only being 'displayed as victims' obviously haven't read a single book on the subject that has been produced during the last two decades, not to mention haven't read a majority of the threads on these Boards.
It would be a great advantage if people actually made the effort of studying what has been written about the case for the last two decades instead of stating and repeating old nonsense that doesn't at all represent the nature of the research being made today.

All the best

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

Personally, I believe someone out there has the identity of JtR stuffed in their attic or basement. I think this case will be solved, but I don't know when and I don't know how. Don't you love the optimist?

Nonsense. Absolute nonsense.
Besides, it is totally irrelevant today to seek evidence of the identity of the killer - what is interesting is the research efforts that's being made today in trying to get a grasp of the historical and social context and about the people who figure in this drama.
The Ripper case today can't be focused on finding the killer, but to clear up the small question marks or mysteries that lies WITHIN the case and to understand the environment in which the murders occurred.

This doesn't mean that the Ripper case becomes less interesting - on the contrary. Even if it can't be solved, there are number of small issues and mysteries connected with the case that needs to be further studied cleared up and there are things happening every month and will contime to happen thanks to a number of dedicated researchers, even though it won't provide a last solution on the case as a whole.

THAT is what is interesting and relevant today and it won't make the case less interesting. Those who get disappointed by the notion of that the Ripper case might not be solved, shouldn't really indulge at all in murder cases that are this old.
I think everyone would benefit from actually accepting this reality.

All the best

[Sasha]

I for one respect the opinions and experience of those on this board. And yet, however naively, I for one am attracted to this case - like many others - for being one of the most interesting unsolved crimes in history. And, as a consequence, I like to keep an open mind and believe that the more people who think about, and are exposed to this case, the more likely the truth will be known. And perhaps the truth is the case will never be solved. On the other hand, you never know ...

With respect,
Sasha