Gary Ridgway and Jack killed prostitutes

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Mitch,

Yes profiling is a weak form of investigation and is almost never 100% correct and can even hurt in some cases but we dont have much to work with in these cases.

We have to do something. Anything to try to get us closer to JTRs identity.

I don't think it will, though. Without knowing the biography of every man alive in the UK (or overseas) at the time, how can one possibly do a "bottom-up" search to find a man with the right antecedents to fit any proposed model? Apart from the sillier "celebrity suspects", the biographies of known suspects are sketchy at best, and even for those we have tangible reasons why one suspect has a greater or lesser claim than another. These reasons generally boil down to geography, timing, evidence of generally violent behaviour, etc - all of which have little to do with whether or not we choose to label him a "sexual killer" or not.

Were we to find a suspect who satisfied all the temporal, geographical and behavioural criteria - heck, even if we found a verifiable confession! - we would still be in a position where people would argue about labels. "Yes he was/No he wasn't" - I don't think it matters. He killed women, cut them open and mutilated them, period. Whether we call him a sexual murderer, a necrophile, a "deconstructionist" or an "expressionist" doesn't alter the facts about what he did, nor indeed who he was, in the least.

[Cap'n Jack]

Ah, dear, Sam, you fight a battle already lost.
The thrust now is to have Jack as a rapacious sexual serial killer, thrusting 'is Wilson blade into the parts of wimmin cos' he can't part the tube doors in the morning cos' 'is sun ripened tomato an organic beef sandwich jams the door.
'E were just a ferret and a fart; and there were many before him.
The point these exceptionals have to learn is that Jack was not the exception, but the rule.

[Sam Flynn]

Ah, dear, Sam, you fight a battle already lost.

Fear not, Cap'n - I see no reason to battle here, although it pains me to see others getting all frothed up over taxonomy. There was a similar debate recently about whether Pluto should be classed as a planet, a planetoid, or a Kuiper Belt object. None of this altered the fact that Pluto was there, and it didn't stop us finding similar objects in the outer reaches of our Solar System. For all it matters, we could classify this family of orbiting objects as "krudge-fnurdles" and it wouldn't make a ha'porth of difference to their physical properties, nor to the reality of their existence.

[jc007]

JC,

6) Given your own demonstrations of arrogance, making false charges, never even meeting someone halfway with your own sources, quotes and evidence, but only using your own insufficeintly-informed opinion as a source... and well, just all of it together... please know that I'm done trying to help you fit in now. Once you start backing up your own opinion, showing respect to other folks on these boards who are far more researched and studied than you, and generally being a nicer chap to chat with... I see no reason to continue engaging you in pointless debates where you seemingly fail to grasp the evidence folks like me present you with to educate your opinion; it seems to fall on deaf ears, and so now, like many others, I've got my own research to do and, thus, more productive uses of my time. At least till such time as you grow up a bit in your demeanor on these boards and can start treating others as you wish to be treated.

Craig, it seems you so called researches who base your research on guesses than actual facts, like to quickly shoot down other peoples opinions, its happened time and again on these forums, and not with just me either, it seem because people like yourself, Dan Norder and Tom Wescott, who don't like being challenged on things you can not definately prove yourself, you all seem to go to great lengths to defend yourself or your theorys and it seems that the only reason to do this is because it fits in nicely with your theorys and studies and what ever papers you have written or whatever money you are trying to make out of the cases, or what ever brownie points your trying to get out of it, now i am entirely right in my statement when i say that there are other possibilities involved, none of us here know the answers so until we do which seems we never will, anything is possible. Just because i don't take the easy option and write a paper saying one thing based on a label only or based on one similarity from another crime, doesn't mean i'm wrong, doesn't mean i'm right either, just means the debate is open.
Oh and go ahead and make 100 points, instead of 6 in reply to me it looks impressive, doesn't change a whole lot though, you still can not prove beyond a shadow of a doubt Jack the Ripper was a sexual serial killer just because the abdominal region was attacked, that one aspect of the crime alone does not automatically make him one, it makes the arguement that he could be one if more evidence was available, but there is no more evidence available so you can not conclude he definately was, sorry if it doesn't fit in well with your paper or papers or whatever, that thats the way it is, like it or not. Its a fact, unlike your guesses based on other crimes or profiling which is helpful but not 100% accurate either.

[jc007]

I believe entirely too much is made of trivialities in this field, and not enough is made of the things that actually matter.

Someone does a single pass through the evidence of Jack and some other serial and makes bland, surface comparisons that are too simplistic even for the FBI Profile of Jack (itself a cliche-ridden joke).


And certainly getting lost in all the peripheral evidence is an error all too common on these boards and in much Ripper literature. (It's not a terrible crime, it's human nature.) But the advice of sticking to the case files and focusing on the essentials of the crimes is good advice even for Ripperology.

It seems you have changed your tune since posting this earlier in the thread.

[BLUE WIZZARD]

no interview for jack

In my opinion, Gary Ridgeway was interviewed after his arrest, and Jack was never caught to be interviewed. It may have been a sexual crime but hatred for prostitutes makes it a hate driven crime. hate is the core for most of the serial killers that attack prostitutes, a lot of times based on the love hate relationship with the Mother.

Interviews with the killers have revealed this to be true most of the time.

Using the interviews from the killers sense Jack helps us to see Jack in a different light than in the early days of investigations.

BW

please do not hate me for being wrong.

[Roy Corduroy]

I'd agree that Gary Ridgway is one of the stronger comparison cases with Jack the Ripper.

Hi Ben,

I disagree. Ridgeway killed young prostitutes. Jack the Ripper killed middled aged unfortunates, excepting Kelly.

But for a bigger reason I don't compare any modern serial killer to JtR. After him the others are is in some sense copycats. The idea is planted in folks' minds - Jack the Ripper killed prostitutes. Technically true, but it is one more stick to put in their bag of psychosis. Where there is cause and effect there can be no comparison.

Roy

[Ben]

Hi Roy,

I don't think you can distance the victim-type like that purely by emphasising the different definitions. "Unfortunate" the ripper's victims may have been, but they were still prostitutes, just as Ridgeway's victims were. That doesn't mean either of them targetted that group out of hatred for that specific occupation, but it's likely that both killers regarded them as easy-pickings.

I'd also disagree with the view that no modern serial killer can be compared to Jack the Ripper. Human psychology has hardly advanced or altered to an appreciable extent over several decades. The human propensity towards evil, psycopathy, sexual frustration/inadequacy, manipulation, self-preservation etc hasn't changed in the interim, and as such, we simply can't say that there can be no comparison as far as "cause and effect" are concerned. If that held true, we may as well dispense with Shakespeare on the grounds that the emotions and human motivations exhibited therein are irrelevant today.

Best regards,
Ben

[BLUE WIZZARD]

Roy,

you said "After him the others are is in some sense copycats."

Serial killers have been around long before Jack, so perhaps Jack is the copy cat.

BW

[Ryan_Miller]

All serial killers have their similarities and their differences, and you can compare and contrast them all you like, so lets do just that...

Gary Ridgway Jack the Ripper

Killed Prostitutes Killed Prostitutes
48 - 90 possible victims 4 - 8 possible victims
Killed from 1982 - 1998 Killed from 1888 - 1891?
Necrophilia or Rape of victims Not known to have had sex with victims
Victims weres often posed Victims or organs may have been posed
Did not send letters to police Real letters may have been sent to police

Granted there are many similarities the biggest problem is that the Jack the Ripper case is 120 years in the past. Gary Ridgway was caught and interviewed so we know a little about his past and his killings, but its hard to compare someone we know about to an enigma.

[Ryan_Miller]

Gary Ridgway

Killed Prostitutes
48 - 90 possible victims
Killed from 1982 - 1998
Necrophilia or Rape of victims
Did not send letters to police

Jack the Ripper

Killed Prostitutes
4 - 8 possible victims
Killed from 1888 - 1891?
Not known to have had sex with victims
Victims weres often posed Victims or organs may have been posed
Real letters may have been sent to police

Hopefully this is a little better than how it appeared in my previous post

[Roy Corduroy]

Hi Ryan,

Ridgway did send a letter after the style of Jack the Ripper. The Ripper letters helped make JtR so famous and ingrained in our collective pcyche all these years, spawnining copycats. Ironically, today we know all the Ripper letters were fake, thanks to the top experts Evans & Skinner.

Roy

[Graham]

Gary Leon Ridgway, 52,Green River Killer. He is 5' 10" tall, 155 pounds. Drank beer and solicited prostitutes for over 20 years

Drank beer, did he? The swine.

Graham

[Ryan_Miller]

Roy,
How can we say conclusively that the Ripper Letters are ALL fakes? I am not saying they are all by the killer, but how can be certain that not one (Dear Boss, Saucy Jack Postcard, From Hell Letter) are not from the killer? Maybe it is not probable but, Probability is one thing and Certainty is another.

[Roy Corduroy]

Ryan, OK maybe we are not 100% certain those letters were hoaxes.

I'm saying the Ripper letters are very well known. And some sick clown like Gary R is likely going to know it. He doesn't take the trouble to find out if they are hoaxes or not.

So Ridgway writes a letter too. Because in his warped mind he is like Jack the Ripper. The Ripper, after all, got away with murder, he was never caught. Well, great. And he wrote letters. So why not copy that. JtR becomes his role model. And if that's the case, I can't compare the two.

Roy