The Whitehall Mystery

[Debra A]

Before I go, and before you remove that bee in your bonnet, Please be so kinds as to answer me these simple questions, and perhaps others on here might want to do the same,

Can you prove that any of the torsos were the subject of murder based on what Dr Biggs has now said having reviewed you work on the torsos ?

If you are able to prove that, can you prove they were the work of a serial killer?

If they were not the work of a killer can you prove that they died as a result of a back street procedure connected to a pregnancy issue?

Can you prove that they did not die as a result of some back st medical procedure connected to a pregnancy issue?

Tatty Bye

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Dr Biggs did not review MY work on the torsos! He was given brief notes made from extensive comtemporary forensic examination notes made by Hebbert and Bond who studied all four cases 87-89 and his conclusions were exactly as I've always said myself.
You didn't ask him specific case related questions and his answers were in general in response.

I can't prove anything but I can evaluate the evidence, use contemporary sources and historical evidence and come to the conclusion that a series of murders is a possibility.

You have yet to give us a scenario where any of your theories could even begin to apply to a specific torso case.

Those who are able to read and comprehend will know I have never ruled out pregnancy related deaths in two of the cases-you are inventing opinions now. What I objected to was your scenario where an abortion was performed through abdominal surgery.

I actually believe if Elizabeth died as the result of an abortion it was because she was poisoned before anything was done physically and her body dismembered to hide that evidence by removing the intestines. You, in your rush to reinforce your strange ideas about JTR not being an organ stealer have tried to apply a similar scenario to the torso cases and have got yourself boxed in as a result.

Go and untwist your knickers.

[Trevor Marriott]

Dr Biggs did not review MY work on the torsos! He was given brief notes made from extensive comtemporary forensic examination notes made by Hebbert and Bond who studied all four cases 87-89 and his conclusions were exactly as I've always said myself.
You didn't ask him specific case related questions and his answers were in general in response.

I can't prove anything but I can evaluate the evidence, use contemporary sources and historical evidence and come to the conclusion that a series of murders is a possibility.

You have yet to give us a scenario where any of your theories could even begin to apply to a specific torso case.

Those who are able to read and comprehend will know I have never ruled out pregnancy related deaths in two of the cases-you are inventing opinions now. What I objected to was your scenario where an abortion was performed through abdominal surgery.

I actually believe if Elizabeth died as the result of an abortion it was because she was poisoned before anything was done physically and her body dismembered to hide that evidence by removing the intestines. You, in your rush to reinforce your strange ideas about JTR not being an organ stealer have tried to apply a similar scenario to the torso cases and have got yourself boxed in as a result.

Go and untwist your knickers.

I am not boxed in simply because personally I don't believe the torsos were the subject of murder so what happened to the torso organs is irrelevant and not connected to JTR

PS
I dont wear any knickers i wear a new type of pants called "Victor Sylvesters" they have extra ballroom in

[Debra A]

PS
I dont wear any knickers i wear a new type of pants called "Victor Sylvesters" they have extra ballroom in

Oh, you poor thing, Trevor. Did they swell cos of the pox?

[Trevor Marriott]

Oh, you poor thing, Trevor. Did they swell cos of the pox?

Now now Debs

No need to get too personal you told me the tabletss they gave you had cleared it up

and now it is best we both leave before we get a ban

[RockySullivan]

I believe the connection between the ripper and the torso killer is the stolen tools. Tools go missing from 29 hanburys basement and shortly after a murder occurs in the yard. Tools go missing from whitehall vault and shortly after a torso turns up. Now the question is...was the whitehall tool theft an inside job? Aspects of the vault indicate that as a possibility. And hanbury? Francis Tyler had worked for mrs Richardson a very long time. And he lived with john Richardson I believe. But why would John R stop to check the vault shortly before 5...when Tyler would be into work at 6?

[GUT]

I believe the connection between the ripper and the torso killer is the stolen tools. Tools go missing from 29 hanburys basement and shortly after a murder occurs in the yard. Tools go missing from whitehall vault and shortly after a torso turns up. Now the question is...was the whitehall tool theft an inside job? Aspects of the vault indicate that as a possibility. And hanbury? Francis Tyler had worked for mrs Richardson a very long time. And he lived with john Richardson I believe. But why would John R stop to check the vault shortly before 5...when Tyler would be into work at 6?

Any tools missing from any other Ripper sites?

[RockySullivan]

Any tools missing from any other Ripper sites?

Aside from Kelly, weren't these the only two bodies within a closed environment?

[RockySullivan]

From what I remember reading MRs R at first didn't remember any theft, then she suddenly recalled it...which I found a little strange

[GUT]

Aside from Kelly, weren't these the only two bodies within a closed environment?

Well

1. Any from Miller's Court?

2. How s Hanbury Street any more a closed environment than Dufield Yard (where imagine there would be no shortage of tools.)

[RockySullivan]

Well

1. Any from Miller's Court?

2. How s Hanbury Street any more a closed environment than Dufield Yard (where imagine there would be no shortage of tools.)

I guess it's not althought hanbury could only be accessed through the front entrance and hallway and dutfield had the doors to the gate opened onto the street. I wonder if there were any thefts reported in or around dutfield yard

[Harry D]

Well if you dont think the attack on Eddowes was, then there is no hope for you.

That doesn't answer my question. I'd like to know what's "mad and frenzied" about the attacks on Chapman & Eddowes.

[John Wheat]

So let me get this straight the Torso Killer didn't exist according to some posters?
Where's the evidence of this?

[Fisherman]

So let me get this straight the Torso Killer didn't exist according to some posters?
Where's the evidence of this?

Why is everybody asking for evidence?

"Where´s the evidence that there was a killer?"

"What´s the evidence that there was not?"

"Where´s the evidence that it was the same killer in all cases?"

"Where´s the evidence that there was once evidence?"


Where´s the evidence that somebody, anybody, is ever going to ask a useful question out here...?

[John Wheat]

The common consensus is that there was a Torso Killer so anyone proposing there wasn't should show evidence of this. I doubt they will. There are some useful questions out there but never from jaded posters who have there own skewed agendas to push.

[Fisherman]

The common consensus is that there was a Torso Killer so anyone proposing there wasn't should show evidence of this. I doubt they will. There are some useful questions out there but never from jaded posters who have there own skewed agendas to push.

The problem is, John Wheat, that you are not exactly able to provide conclusive evidence that the torso cases WERE the work of a serial killer. Therefore, any demands to provide evidence pro or against are by and large useless. The only thing it will produce is an unnecessary claim of board surface.

... and that goes for jaded and hip posters alike.