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Jack The Burglar?

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  • Jack The Burglar?

    Hi All,

    Having read suggestions that Jack may have been a burglar, I thought I would start this thread.

    The following may be of interest:

    Pontypridd Chronicle and Workman's News
    22 February 1889
    THE CAPTURE OF A SUPPOSED BURGLAR. At the Highgabe Police Court, London, James Fairman (21), seaman, of 21, Commercial Road, E., was charged on remand with loitering at Crouch End for the supposed purpose of committing a felony, and further with having housebreaking implements in his possession. Prisoner now said on the night in question a man came up to him in the Commercial Road and asked him to go with him, and as he had been out for three or four night, without any food he consented. At Crouch End the man gave him the keys and jemmy. The man then left him, telling him to wait for him. He had only been waiting about two minutes when the detective book him into custody. The Bench committed the prisoner for trial.


    Why would this be of interest, well, he was a seaman (I emphasise this because of the possible sighting before Eddowes death, and the witness statements). The address at which Fairman stayed puts him in the area that places him pretty much in the heart of the murders, not to mention the GSG. He could have possibly had a knife on him, it has been noted that some lower class burglars used a knife to gain access to drawers, desks etc.

    Also I found this:

    Aberystwyth Observer
    5 December 1885
    ATTEMPTED DOUBLE MURDER BY A BURGLAR, A desperate attempt at double murder was made at Bolton on Wednesday morning. A Mrs. Bradley, residing in Oldball-street, entered her chamber shortly after midnight, when a man sprang upon her in the darkness, and began slashing her tbroat with a razor. Hearing screams the servant girl came in, whereupon the miscreant turned and attacked her, attempting to cut her throat also. Fortunately her neck was protected by a thick scarf and she escaped with slight cuts. An alarm was raised, and the neighbours came in, when the stranger dashed through the bedroom window, and let himself into the street by means of a projection under the window. Chase was given by the police, but, after being followed through several thoroughfares, the would-be murderer was lost in the darkness. It is thought that a burglary was meant, and that, being disturbed, the fellow scught to dis- pose of the two women before escaping.

  • #2
    Never heard a suggestion that Jack was a burglar, that he robbed yes, but as only one was indoors "A Burgler"???
    G U T

    There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by GUT View Post
      Never heard a suggestion that Jack was a burglar, that he robbed yes, but as only one was indoors "A Burgler"???
      It was something Rocky hinted at in the Bond thread. Sorry should have made it clearer that no author etc suggested it.

      I should also say he may have been a burglar before a murderer.
      Last edited by Natasha; 03-14-2015, 06:26 PM.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Natasha View Post
        It was something Rocky hinted at in the Bond thread. Sorry should have made it clearer that no author etc suggested it.
        Just can't see how he could be a burglar.
        G U T

        There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by GUT View Post
          Just can't see how he could be a burglar.
          It's Kelly that has me questioning this.
          The fact that he was able to gain access to Kelly's room. If she let him in the neighbours would have heard something. A knock on the door. Small talk from Kelly, perhaps asking who was there (she was singing that night, I doubt she really gave a stuff about waking the neighbours, so wouldn't lower her voice to ask who was there). Kelly possibly falling/bashing into the table or chair after waking from a drink induced sleep. If she was really drunk it would be hard to wake her up in the first place.

          I would like to point out that some killers have done petty crimes before they go on to commit murder, and the motive and MO differ completely to one another in that respect. In saying that though if he was a burglar and seeing that killing on the street was getting increasingly difficult he may have utilised his burglar 'skills' to get at Kelly.

          Comment


          • #6
            The Yorkshire Ripper was done for carrying about equipment (a hammer) to break and enter somewhere and hiding in the bushes.
            Bona fide canonical and then some.

            Comment


            • #7
              Who knows what Jack was doing before he started on his career of souvenir hunting. He could have taught in Sunday School and been the apple of his parents' eye, for all we know.

              However, it is remarkable how many serial killers, and other serious offenders start off with something relatively minor like joy riding in stolen cars, vandalising, lighting fires, doing some shoplifting and petty theft etc. before going on to something else, like breaking and entering and serious assaults.

              He could have been a thief and burglar and perhaps never been caught. If by some miracle Jack is ever found and named, I for one, wouldn't be at all surprised to find he had several prior convictions in his past, anyway.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Rosella View Post
                Who knows what Jack was doing before he started on his career of souvenir hunting. He could have taught in Sunday School and been the apple of his parents' eye, for all we know.

                However, it is remarkable how many serial killers, and other serious offenders start off with something relatively minor like joy riding in stolen cars, vandalising, lighting fires, doing some shoplifting and petty theft etc. before going on to something else, like breaking and entering and serious assaults.

                He could have been a thief and burglar and perhaps never been caught. If by some miracle Jack is ever found and named, I for one, wouldn't be at all surprised to find he had several prior convictions in his past, anyway.
                Neither would I.

                I thought it worth mentioning Fairman because of the seaman thing and his address.

                I think it useful to investigate some of the minor crimes committed by people who lived in the Whitechapel district. It would be difficult, but well worth a look.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The whitehall was not easy to access and tolls had been stolen from the vault before the torso. Tools were also stolen from 29 hanbury basement. Robert Paul I think stated the spot were Nichols was was a well known mugging spot. So the ripper may have been choosing his locations based on previous criminal activity there. I would say burglaries near mitre Sq, dutfield yard and Dorset st may be of interest

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by RockySullivan View Post
                    The whitehall was not easy to access and tolls had been stolen from the vault before the torso. Tools were also stolen from 29 hanbury basement. Robert Paul I think stated the spot were Nichols was was a well known mugging spot. So the ripper may have been choosing his locations based on previous criminal activity there. I would say burglaries near mitre Sq, dutfield yard and Dorset st may be of interest
                    I would like to investigate the burglaries also. I can't seem to find any news reports on robberies near Dorset St though, I hope someone will be able to find it.

                    I wasn't aware there was any burglaries near Dutfield's Yard or tools stolen from Hanbury. Interesting. Do you know the specifics of these burglaries?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Natasha View Post
                      I would like to investigate the burglaries also. I can't seem to find any news reports on robberies near Dorset St though, I hope someone will be able to find it.

                      I wasn't aware there was any burglaries near Dutfield's Yard or tools stolen from Hanbury. Interesting. Do you know the specifics of these burglaries?
                      Never heard of burglaries near dutfield yard but what I did read is that the vault at whitehall where the workers kept tools had had been burglarized. Some tools were stolen some time before the torso dump. Interesting because the workers said it would be hard to gain entry. Coincidentally the basement at 29 hanbury where John richardson kept his tools has been burglarized too. Some of his tools had been stolen so he kept a padlock on the door. This was the whole reason for his being in the yard that morning...to check if the basement had been burglarized. I think there is a connection here between the stolen tools from whitehall and hanbury. Reports of stolen tools might turn up some leads. Why would someone be stealing tools specifically? For use or resale?
                      Last edited by RockySullivan; 03-15-2015, 02:48 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by GUT View Post
                        Just can't see how he could be a burglar.
                        If we assume that MJK didn't invite her killer into her room, JtR was a burglar. In the UK burglary is committed where a person enters a building or part of a building, as a trespasser, with intent to commit one of a number of offences (one of which is GBH). I think we can safely accept that GBH, and more, was committed - and intended.
                        "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bridewell View Post
                          If we assume that MJK didn't invite her killer into her room, JtR was a burglar. In the UK burglary is committed where a person enters a building or part of a building, as a trespasser, with intent to commit one of a number of offences (one of which is GBH). I think we can safely accept that GBH, and more, was committed - and intended.
                          I should have been more specific, I can't see any evidence he was a burglar other than incidental to his murder of MJK.

                          As I understand the hypothesis being put forward there is some sort of connection between the stolen tools at Whitehall and 29 Hanbury and the murders, I have just seen nothing that even remotely supports this.
                          G U T

                          There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by GUT View Post
                            I should have been more specific, I can't see any evidence he was a burglar other than incidental to his murder of MJK.

                            As I understand the hypothesis being put forward there is some sort of connection between the stolen tools at Whitehall and 29 Hanbury and the murders, I have just seen nothing that even remotely supports this.
                            Nor have I.
                            "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Tools are stolen from a basement in whitehall. Torso turns up in the same spot. Tools are stolen from basement at 29 hanbury. Annie Chapman turns up dead feet from the basement. Proven connection? No. Remotely possible? Indeed.

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