Those who say the Ripper case can never be solved are wrong.

[Mayerling]

Problem with Time Travel idea

While a time machine sounds nifty, I can foresee some problems. How about these:

If you are hiding under Mary's bed (a hideous thought) not only would you hear the poor girl's screams for help, but her blood would end up all over you as well.

You would also run a desperately bad risk. Because the victims are all women in this case, we assume the perpetrator never hurt a man. This is ridiculous. Neill Cream killed mostly women by badly performed (intentionally?) abortions, or by poisoning - BUT HE ALSO POISONED DANIEL STOTT!! If Cream could switch sexes so could the Ripper. As he'd be armed and in a frenzy of adenalin fed evil, he'd attack whomever was caught in the room with Mary. You'd have to carry and use a gun - and I hesitate to suggest one with tranquilizer bullets, as he might still kill you.

Say he is surprised to find you under the bed, and is holding the knife to your throat. He is going to want to know (and quickly) who the hell you are!
Now you will tell him "I'm a time traveler from 2015 (or whenever) Ripper, and we and the world of our day want to know who you are. Tell us and I'll leave you hear to finish what you are doing [which is a hideous thought] and go back to the future."

If he believes you...I'd say his mental abilities were questionable. You'd have to show him the device that travels in time. If he is a "good sport" [?] he might say "I'm so and so - want a photo?" He let's you take it while he points to Mary's body [again, a hideous idea] tells you his address and antecedents. You leave with your proof, and everyone congratulates you when you show what it is.

Or

He forces you to take him into the future (which was the plot of a film with Malcolm MacDonald and David Warner twenty odd years back, concerning the Ripper - a Dr. Lionel Stevenson - and H. G. Wells). He figures this would be the perfect escape for him. He kills you when you arrive in the present, and starts a new "old wave" of terror in the modern world.

You might think of taking more than one person with you as a safety precaution. But Mary would probably wonder what kind of kinky sexual activity all of you are into (so would Jack).

I once considered going back to each date, and showing up to rescue the ladies from their demise (especially Mary Kelly). But Jack would probably pick a whole new set of victims - everytime one would go back to do a rescue, he'd find a new set of victims. He doesn't know what is going on. Nor do the rescued ladies (what are they going to do in the modern world anyway - resume their former job? And what if they have relatives and friends they're leaving behind?).

As you can see this is becoming incredibly difficult to follow. I keep thinking of Jack Finney's "Time and Again", or that episode about the time machine and Lincoln's Assassination (with Russell Johnson) on "Twilight Zone". Nothing seems to work well in actuality by this method.

Fortunately time travel is still a fiction. I hope it remains so.

By the way GUT, I like black jellybeans too.

Jeff

[GUT]

G'day Jeff

And you might damage the time-space continuum too.

asked for black jelly beans for Easter, but got white chocolate instead, oh well I'll just have to make do.

[Mayerling]

G'day Jeff

And you might damage the time-space continuum too.

asked for black jelly beans for Easter, but got white chocolate instead, oh well I'll just have to make do.

Thanks GUT, I forgot to mention the time-space continuum.

As for the white chocolate alternative, well we all have to make sacrifices.

Happy Easter!!

Jeff

[GUT]

Thanks GUT, I forgot to mention the time-space continuum.

As for the white chocolate alternative, well we all have to make sacrifices.

Happy Easter!!

Jeff

Thanks mate, same to you, it was hard, especially when the Rocky Road came out as well.

[Richard Patterson]

While a time machine sounds nifty, I can foresee some problems. How about these:

If you are hiding under Mary's bed (a hideous thought) not only would you hear the poor girl's screams for help, but her blood would end up all over you as well.

You would also run a desperately bad risk. Because the victims are all women in this case, we assume the perpetrator never hurt a man. This is ridiculous. Neill Cream killed mostly women by badly performed (intentionally?) abortions, or by poisoning - BUT HE ALSO POISONED DANIEL STOTT!! If Cream could switch sexes so could the Ripper. As he'd be armed and in a frenzy of adenalin fed evil, he'd attack whomever was caught in the room with Mary. You'd have to carry and use a gun - and I hesitate to suggest one with tranquilizer bullets, as he might still kill you.

Say he is surprised to find you under the bed, and is holding the knife to your throat. He is going to want to know (and quickly) who the hell you are!
Now you will tell him "I'm a time traveler from 2015 (or whenever) Ripper, and we and the world of our day want to know who you are. Tell us and I'll leave you hear to finish what you are doing [which is a hideous thought] and go back to the future."

If he believes you...I'd say his mental abilities were questionable. You'd have to show him the device that travels in time. If he is a "good sport" [?] he might say "I'm so and so - want a photo?" He let's you take it while he points to Mary's body [again, a hideous idea] tells you his address and antecedents. You leave with your proof, and everyone congratulates you when you show what it is.

Or

He forces you to take him into the future (which was the plot of a film with Malcolm MacDonald and David Warner twenty odd years back, concerning the Ripper - a Dr. Lionel Stevenson - and H. G. Wells). He figures this would be the perfect escape for him. He kills you when you arrive in the present, and starts a new "old wave" of terror in the modern world.

You might think of taking more than one person with you as a safety precaution. But Mary would probably wonder what kind of kinky sexual activity all of you are into (so would Jack).

I once considered going back to each date, and showing up to rescue the ladies from their demise (especially Mary Kelly). But Jack would probably pick a whole new set of victims - everytime one would go back to do a rescue, he'd find a new set of victims. He doesn't know what is going on. Nor do the rescued ladies (what are they going to do in the modern world anyway - resume their former job? And what if they have relatives and friends they're leaving behind?).

As you can see this is becoming incredibly difficult to follow. I keep thinking of Jack Finney's "Time and Again", or that episode about the time machine and Lincoln's Assassination (with Russell Johnson) on "Twilight Zone". Nothing seems to work well in actuality by this method.

Fortunately time travel is still a fiction. I hope it remains so.

By the way GUT, I like black jellybeans too.

Jeff

My precept for this discussion is that time is without emotion and merciless. What if one were to time travel to November 9th 1888. You emerge from under Mary’s bed only to find you are with her only. A knife rests on her bedside table. It is then that you perceive the forces of history twist and spiral to your being. The spiritus-mundi of the age. The power the bloodshed of an Empire’s history centering and entering your flesh. Destiny calls you without hope of escape. You take the knife and begin the ritual and in the hours that precede to morn it dawns on you with unspeakable horror what you must do. Back and back you will go. Two on September 30, One on the 8th, the first, August 31 to be your last. Jacked into ripples of time. There has always been a monster under the bed. And it is you.

[Amanda]

My precept for this discussion is that time is without emotion and merciless. What if one were to time travel to November 9th 1888. You emerge from under Mary’s bed only to find you are with her only. A knife rests on her bedside table. It is then that you perceive the forces of history twist and spiral to your being. The spiritus-mundi of the age. The power the bloodshed of an Empire’s history centering and entering your flesh. Destiny calls you without hope of escape. You take the knife and begin the ritual and in the hours that precede to morn it dawns on you with unspeakable horror what you must do. Back and back you will go. Two on September 30, One on the 8th, the first, August 31 to be your last. Jacked into ripples of time. There has always been a monster under the bed. And it is you.

Richard,

Whatever you're on, can I have some please?

Methinks your Easter Egg contained a lot more than chocolate.....

Amanda

[Richard Patterson]

Richard,

Whatever you're on, can I have some please?

Methinks your Easter Egg contained a lot more than chocolate.....

Amanda

The posts here inspired me with their alternate timelines. I thought here's my chance to be creative without having to provide proof. I would have typed more but the chocolate on my fingers has made the keyboard sticky. Happy Easter!

[MrBarnett]

If we can rewrite history, how about this:

Instead of her being a murder victim let's imagine that MJK was herself a killer. Let's say a punter got a bit rough and she pulled out a knife and stabbed him in the neck.

No one witnessed the incident and she was able to slip back to Millers Court unobserved. Shortly afterwards (before the 1891 census was taken) she left the East End.

Leaving aside time travel and other paradigm shifts in science, how would a 21st-Century researcher be able to solve the case, or even identify an MJK living in Spitalfields in 1888?

For me that's the nub of the problem. The 2/300 (or whatever the figure is) suspects so far considered are just the visible tip of an enormous iceberg. There were nearly half a million people living in Tower Hamlets in 1888. Add to that those living in nearby boroughs within easy reach of Whitechapel and you probably have around a million.

Even after you eliminate those disqualified by age and (probably) gender you still have tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of potential suspects. Many of whom, because of the transient nature of a large part of the East End population, are beyond our reach.

If Jack was one of these, then I'm afraid he got away with his crimes for eternity.

[Harry D]

The posts here inspired me with their alternate timelines. I thought here's my chance to be creative without having to provide proof. I would have typed more but the chocolate on my fingers has made the keyboard sticky. Happy Easter!

Don't listen to them, Dick, some of us enjoy a good time paradox.

However, even if you could revisit the Autumn of Terror and crack one of the grisly murders, it still wouldn't be enough to satisfy Lynn & co.

[Batman]

Time After Time 1979

H.G. Wells pursues Jack the Ripper to the 20th Century when the serial murderer uses the future writer's time machine to escape his time period.

[Mayerling]

My precept for this discussion is that time is without emotion and merciless. What if one were to time travel to November 9th 1888. You emerge from under Mary’s bed only to find you are with her only. A knife rests on her bedside table. It is then that you perceive the forces of history twist and spiral to your being. The spiritus-mundi of the age. The power the bloodshed of an Empire’s history centering and entering your flesh. Destiny calls you without hope of escape. You take the knife and begin the ritual and in the hours that precede to morn it dawns on you with unspeakable horror what you must do. Back and back you will go. Two on September 30, One on the 8th, the first, August 31 to be your last. Jacked into ripples of time. There has always been a monster under the bed. And it is you.

You are right to say that time is without emotion and merciless. Hell when I look at myself in a mirror these days I can see that. But the individual human being may be with emotion and (possibly) full of mercy. I like to think the best of most people - possibly too much of a "Pollyanna" viewpoint, given the horrors of our world and of history. But most people never really over-react so dramatically or deadly.

Hell we can go on forever like this about "what ifs". I find myself alone with Mary at 26 Dorset that moment (and when was that moment, by the way?). After explaining to her (I'm SURE she'll accept my time travel story), why is there a knife in the room? - for food or is Mary being self-protective (given the number of recent murders and her profession, probably the latter)? Mary could attack me. Or, suppose we both retain our normal calmness, and get to talking, and we start playing with each other (that is how her profession usually works it). Soon we are doing it, and I realize she should be taken out of this idiotic bad situation. We both go back to the present to set up together. And she - naturally - takes an interest on what if anything happened at 26 Dorset since she was not targeted and hit. Eventually she and I find some buried story about a violent to-do at 26 Dorset that night involving "X" who insisted he had an appointment but can't find the person. So she (ironically) discovers who "Jack" could have been.

By the way, whoever goes from 1888 to the present who is not from the present will have to really work hard to get used to the present. Mary had to worry (besides of violent and homicidal "Johns"/"Jacks") about syphilis and gonorrhea only. How to explain A.I.D.S. or even Herpes to her? How to explain the disappearance of all those powerful governments in Europe under Kings or Kaisers or Tsars? How to explain (although I assume she'd be happy about it) the emergence of the Republic of Eire? But maybe the existence of "Stormont" would confuse her (it does many of us). Or the existence of a Jewish state in Israel? Or the current militant Islamic threat to the globe (which Mary might actually think is linked to the contemporary problems of 1883-88 of the Mahdi and the Prophet in the Sudan - she's somewhat right there as to prototype but not direct link).

Jeff

[Mayerling]

H.G. Wells pursues Jack the Ripper to the 20th Century when the serial murderer uses the future writer's time machine to escape his time period.

Thanks Batman for getting the name of the film "Time After Time".

Jeff

[Batman]

Welcome.

[Pcdunn]

What an interesting turn this thread has taken, particularly for a time-travel fiction fan like myself! ("Time After Time", by the way, had a large influence on my interest in the Ripper cases-- and remains one of my favorite JTR movies).

The notion of using a time-machine to go back to historical events and view them is an old one in science fiction, from Wells' "The Time Machine", to fiction stories of the pulp magazines, to the American TV show "The Time Tunnel", and, of, course, the original BBC "Doctor Who". But interfering in the past is rarely a good idea, and the poor lost duo of travelers in the Time Tunnel series found out that landing at the Alamo or aboard the "Titiantic" can be very dangerous.

Joking aside, I hope new evidence will come to light in the future, hopefully not relying on hoaxed materials or dubious articles of cloth, and we will learn the "real" name of Jack the Ripper. From a philosophical standpoint, I must concede, that he is "no one"-- and "everyone", as humans do seem capable of these deeds.

[Bridewell]

G'day J6123

And if Macnaghten was right it was already solved, just they had different solutions.

But didn't MacNaghten simply claim that Ostrog, Kosminski & Druitt were "more likely than Cutbush" rather than that any one of them was the killer?

(Just as an aside, I've noticed that the number of posts I have has dropped by about 40. Is it just me or have others been affected?)