Van Gogh in Arles Sept 8 1888 - Day of murder of Annie Chapman

[Beowulf]

For the sake of one of Vincent Van Gogh, as he has been accused of being the Whitechapel Murderer. I know this is not a very well accepted theory but to knock it out completely I wish to submit the proof against it.

There is a letter written to Vincent Van Gogh's brother, Theo, by Vincent Van Gogh himself, on September 8th 1888.

http://www.vggallery.com/letters/654_V-T_533.pdf

In fact, he wrote a letter on Sept 9th, to Theo, regarding one of his most famous paintings; Night Cafe, which he had just finished. This shows he was working on a painting in Arles around the date of the murder.

The site where more letters and dates can be researched is here:

http://www.vggallery.com/letters/to_theo_arles.htm

[GUT]

This has been raised on the stupid tread on this topic, dale has some lame explanation that calls for the suspension of disbelief.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Beowulf,

Good to see this moronic theory finally given the bum's rush, although it wouldn't surprise me if an argument erupted over whether Van Gogh's letters from Arles constitute primary, secondary or tertiary evidence.

Regards,

Simon

[GUT]

Hi Beowulf,

Good to see this moronic theory finally given the bum's rush, although it wouldn't surprise me if an argument erupted over whether Van Gogh's letters from Arles constitute primary, secondary or tertiary evidence.

Regards,

Simon

What a great idea. But they're clearly primary. Though we might need a document examiner and/or some DNA testing to confirm he wrote them.

[Beowulf]

Van Gogh was also entirely broke. Too broke to pay for travel. Arles France is 748 miles to London and in modern day travel by train 8 hours. This does not include travel to the train station in Arles or where you would get off in London in order to get to the Whitechapel area in time to commit a murder which for some reason, if you were to even consider him the Whitechapel murderer, would be the place of choice for a guy living, broke, in France.

Imagine the time it would've taken in Victorian days. IF there was a train track to London and IF they had running schedules available to arrive and get back to Arles after committing the murder, and IF Vincent could afford to go and come back to Whitechapel.

[Mayerling]

Van Gogh was also entirely broke. Too broke to pay for travel. Arles France is 748 miles to London and in modern day travel by train 8 hours. This does not include travel to the train station in Arles or where you would get off in London in order to get to the Whitechapel area in time to commit a murder which for some reason, if you were to even consider him the Whitechapel murderer, would be the place of choice for a guy living, broke, in France.

Imagine the time it would've taken in Victorian days. IF there was a train track to London and IF they had running schedules available to arrive and get back to Arles after committing the murder, and IF Vincent could afford to go and come back to Whitechapel.

Also keep in mind something else - this is an age of wider, more open suspicions towards foreigners and non-English types (of course substitute other nationalities for similar feelings in other countries). If the locals were quick to take a hostile look towards 1) Eastern European Jewish people, and 2) Irish people, how do you think they'd feel towards some poor guy who speaks (if he spoke English at all) with a Dutch and French accent. Moreover, knowing poor Vincent, he'd have kept saying things like "Paul would help me if he were here" (Paul probably wouldn't have), or "Where's my Theo?" Somehow somebody would have noted these comments. And after November 1888, they'd notice the French guy's head had a bandage over his ear.

Jeff

[Beowulf]

Those are just such good points! Yes, they'd have noted a man speaking in another language, French or Dutch, and yes, he'd have mentioned Theo to someone. They'd remember that when searching so hard for the murderer, he'd stand out like a sore...ear

Mary Kelly's death was November 9th 1888.

November 6th, 1888, just three days prior to that murder, Vincent was living with Gauguin, and wrote to his brother Theo to tell him what they were doing at home. You can see how involved he was in his life at home with Gauguin in Arles:

http://www.vggallery.com/letters/695_V-T_559.pdf

[GUT]

Those are just such good points! Yes, they'd have noted a man speaking in another language, French or Dutch, and yes, he'd have mentioned Theo to someone. They'd remember that when searching so hard for the murderer, he'd stand out like a sore...ear

Mary Kelly's death was November 9th 1888.

November 6th, 1888, just three days prior to that murder, Vincent was living with Gauguin, and wrote to his brother Theo to tell him what they were doing at home. You can see how involved he was in his life at home with Gauguin in Arles:

http://www.vggallery.com/letters/695_V-T_559.pdf

And the next night he jumped on Concorde to be in London n time to kill MJK.

[MrBarnett]

Don't think for one moment I believe this old codswallop, but:

Van Goch had no money.

The letter dated 9/11 thanks Theo for sending him 300 francs the previous week.


It was a long way from Arles to Whitechapel.

By 1888 the French Railway system was extensive. The station at Arles was opened in 1848. A train journey to a channel port, a brief ferry crossing and then a train journey to London would have been a simple affair.


A foreigner would have stood out like a sore thumb in Whitechapel.

Really? No doubt the cockney ear had become attuned to Russian, Polish, Latvian etc etc etc accents and would have immediately recognised a Dutch/French one as something rather odd.


A man who had just ripped a prostitute to shreds in a hovel in the East End can be relied upon to correctly date his correspondence, even though it might incriminate him.

Goes without saying.

[Ausgirl]

he'd stand out like a sore...ear

I laughed - then felt slightly guilty for it, hehehe.

[Mayerling]

I laughed - then felt slightly guilty for it, hehehe.

I hope everyone reading this thread will remember that November 1888 saw two acts of savage mutilation (one self-mutilation). The one we usually concern ourselves with was on Dorset Street, and left poor Mary in literal shreds. The other was Vincent's cutting off the lobe of his ear (not the entire ear, which probably would have killed him - he bled heavily but survived the loss of the lobe, but had it been the entire ear he would have bled to death).

By the way, Paul Gaugin had some interesting interests. I have a volume of his diary entries and letters, and in December 1888 he actually was outside the Parisian prison where the notorious multiple murderer Prado was being guillotined. I presume such events must have been discussed with Vincent, as they would have been discussed all over France or Europe.

If I had to choose a post-impressionist for the murder of prostitutes, I'd have chosen Toulouse - Lautrec. He had a large income of his own (as he was from a wealthy family) so he could travel back and forth to London from Paris without difficulty. He might have made contact with Sickert, to discuss art and crime. I can even (in the wake of another thread in the "Suspects" section) imagine him hiring a large carriage to transport mutilated dead prostitutes in. Only problem - besides his accent: the Scotland Yarders would have been told of some dwarf who acted peculiarly.

Jeff

[The Good Michael]

I

If I had to choose a post-impressionist for the murder of prostitutes, I'd have chosen Toulouse - Lautrec. He had a large income of his own (as he was from a wealthy family) so he could travel back and forth to London from Paris without difficulty. He might have made contact with Sickert, to discuss art and crime. I can even (in the wake of another thread in the "Suspects" section) imagine him hiring a large carriage to transport mutilated dead prostitutes in. Only problem - besides his accent: the Scotland Yarders would have been told of some dwarf who acted peculiarly.

Lautrec was good friends with Fleming and no one noticed them.

Mike

[GUT]

Lautrec was good friends with Fleming and no one noticed them.

Mike

[Beowulf]

Don't think for one moment I believe this old codswallop, but:

Van Gogh had no money.

The letter dated 9/11 thanks Theo for sending him 300 francs the previous week.

The amount was 100 francs and letter goes on to explain how the francs were spent.

[Ausgirl]

After perusing some of the latest threads, I am of the opinion that Van Gogh was just one among several members of a murder-for-art's-sake ring, involving Walter Sickert. T;S. Eliot and of course Francis Thompson, with several other dubious arty fellows of the day.

I'm not sure whether Sickert or Thompson was the leader of this gang, but the fact that Thompson clearly exercised mind control over Eliot suggests he might have been the mastermind. This vicious pack of murderers took turns at killing (you multiple killer-theorists were right all along!) except in the case of Emma Smith, where she identified several suspects - including a young boy -- or was it a certain vertically challenged painter?!?!

My proof is that they were all peculiar and produced questionable art, and some were overly interested in the most sensational murders of their era. Clearly suspicious stuff.

I have dubbed them "The Executionists" and will shortly be making several hundred threads detailing the many different angles of any one particular aspect of my theory. Which is not all a theory. Case solved. The end.