Different Killers

[Ausgirl]

There is in fact a great dissimilarity between the first 2 murdered women and Mary Kelly in terms of likeness...Mary was young enough to be either of their daughters, and she is generally accepted to have been an attractive young lady. Plus there are situational differences between C1-C2 and all the rest of the "Canonical Group", in that we can only say with integrity that Polly and Annie were soliciting at the time.

Cheers

I've already expressed my view on the issue of solicitation -- that the reality of it may not have mattered as much as the perception, if indeed it was a criteria for victim selection. Lots of killers choose victims via a desirable 'template' of one sort or another but also can be seen to diverge from these ideals, sometimes dropping these altogether when opportunity presents a victim and the urge to kill is greater than his preference.

Mary Kelly was indeed a good bit younger and prettier, but who knows, she might have fit the ideal in some other, less tangible way - the sound of her voice, the way she wore her hair. In any case, it was out with the entrails, wasn't it, and he could 'complete' (or 'exhaust') his desire to mutilate with unprecedented freedom.

I don't understood the "cookie cutter' sort of idea -- where it's proposed that because not all of the murders (and to a lesser degree, victims) were *exactly* alike, they *must* have been by different hands.

I challenge anyone to show me a list of victims from a killer we know about, which does not exhibit similar levels of variation from victim to victim. In many cases, both victims and MO vary far more widely than the murders ascribed to JtR!

[Ausgirl]

Just a brief selection of convicted killers who changed things up a great deal more that JtR did. By way of illustrating the extent of variation one killer can exhibit:

Yoo Young-chui, Korea. 26 victims.
Used a hammer to murder mostly older victims, until his focus shifted to the decapitation and mutilation of escorts after being dumped by a girlfriend who worked in that profession

Bulelani Mabhayi, South Africa. 20 victims.
Known as the "Monster of Thuleni"; killed 20 women and children from 2007 to 2012

Arthur Shawcross, United States. 14 victims.
After being arrested in 1972 for the rape and murder of two children, he was able to plead down to a sentence for manslaughter. After 14½ years of incarceration, he began targeting prostitutes. Strangled and battered his victims.

William Suff, United States. 22 victims.
County store clerk who raped, stabbed, strangled, and sometimes mutilated 12 or more prostitutes in Riverside County.

Manuel Delgado Villegas, Spain, France, Italy, 48 victims.
Wandering criminal, confessed to the impulsive murders of 48 people of different gender, age, and sexual orientation in three countries (including his girlfriend, which he strangled during sex), though police only investigated him for 22 murders in Spain and was considered proven author of 7. Some of his victims were killed with hand to hand combat techniques that he had learned in the Spanish Foreign Legion.

There's ---scores--- of killers whose victim pool and MO vary more widely than JtR. In fact, the Ripper murders show a deal more consistency than many do.

[John Wheat]

I don't understood the "cookie cutter' sort of idea -- where it's proposed that because not all of the murders (and to a lesser degree, victims) were *exactly* alike, they *must* have been by different hands.

I challenge anyone to show me a list of victims from a killer we know about, which does not exhibit similar levels of variation from victim to victim. In many cases, both victims and MO vary far more widely than the murders ascribed to JtR!

Ausgirl you make some excellent points. Something as simple as Jack being in various states of inebriation would explain a lot of the so called differences in MO.

Cheers John

[Errata]

Ausgirl you make some excellent points. Something as simple as Jack being in various states of inebriation would explain a lot of the so called differences in MO.

Cheers John

Usually it's something even simpler than drinking. Simple prejudice. Woman alone late at night, must be a prostitute. It means there are more potential targets than a more sophisticated identification system, but he's going to pick the one he can cull from the herd without calling attention to himself. Which means he is hunting prostitutes but is actually killing based on a form of game theory.

[RockySullivan]

Do most of the victims being older indicate the ripper was closer to their age or perhaps a younger punter who liked to spend time with the older and cheaper prostitutes?

[GUT]

Do most of the victims being older indicate the ripper was closer to their age or perhaps a younger punter who liked to spend time with the older and cheaper prostitutes?

Or easier prey, or more of the older prostitutes in Whitechapel, so more opportunity.

[Ausgirl]

Do most of the victims being older indicate the ripper was closer to their age or perhaps a younger punter who liked to spend time with the older and cheaper prostitutes?

All of the above (including what GUT said) - sadly we can't know 'til we know who he was and look at his life for clues. That he picked women who were known to be drunk/known to habitually drink heavily, or were feeling ill, could also indicate he himself was physically weak in some way.

[lynn cates]

peer pressure

Hello Harry. Thanks.

"Problem is when someone is so entrenched in a certain belief, then no amount of evidence will ever change their mind."

Indeed. I have experienced this first hand with multiple researchers. Sometimes I almost despair, but I understand--peer pressure, you know.

Whether one or many, I agree that it must be accounted for.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

victimology

Hello CD. Thanks.

"Sorry, I don't know what you mean by victimology."

I was referring to the ridiculous twaddle that goes, "Ooh, ooh! Must be Jack 'cuz they was all prostitutes, and Jack killed only prostitutes."

I'm sure you've seen that?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Baxter

Hello John. Thanks.

"Perhaps Harry should have said in a comparatively small area of London rather than a square mile. However the rest of his post stands. I would like to know what evidence there is that there were two or three killers on the loose?"

Similarly, I'd like to know what evidence there is that only one killer was involved--especially in light of Baxter's remarks about a possible imitator.

Cheers.
LC

[Ausgirl]

That's not what victimology is. That's more like being snarky.

I haven't seen anyone doggedly expressing that opinion here, either.

[lynn cates]

some

Hello Frank. Thanks.

Please be aware that, logically, some = at least one.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

women

Hello Errata. Thanks.

All fair points. But what does that say about the tired old nonsense of victimology? Why not say, They were all women?

Or better, why not plead ignorance of motive/s?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

restricted mileage

Hello Ausgirl. Thanks.

If you claim all were female, I certainly agree. And, although I don't know what counts as "wee hours," they were all out after midnight.

Not sure how much mileage is in that, but you're welcome to it.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

botched attacks

Hello J.

"Stride looks like a botched Ripper attack to me"

What counts as a ripper attack? Were McKenzie and Coles botched ripper attacks?

Cheers.
LC