Different Killers

[John G]

Hello All. Perhaps the greatest mystery is, How comes it that yet another intelligent thread is subverted into another Stride thread with most of the observations having been offered scores of times before?

Cheers.
LC

I would like a discussion as to whether Eddowes, Kelly and Tabram were victims of the same man who killed Polly and Annie. I would particularly welcome a discussion that revolves around '"parallel cuts"! In fact, for those who reject the multiple killer argument, wouldn't this be safer ground than discussing Stride? I mean, this thread is called "Different Killers", not BS man V the Rest!

[lynn cates]

mystery

Hello All. Perhaps the greatest mystery is, How comes it that yet another intelligent thread is subverted into another Stride thread with most of the observations having been offered scores of times before?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

variables

Hello John. Thanks.

That would depend upon cut, severance of artery, flow rate, etc.

I am QUITE happy with the 12.46-12.56 estimate.

Cheers.
LC

[John G]

Hello John. There can be little doubt that Liz was discovered only slightly before 1.00, But that does not tell us when she died.

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

Yes, I of course agree. However, with the body discovered around 1.00 then Edward Spooner probably arrived just after 1.00. Now I feel his evidence might be important as regards estimating likely time of death. He informs the inquest that when he arrived blood was still "flowing" from the throat. Would this have been likely if she was killed, say, at 12:45? Does it make it more likely that she was killed closer to 1.00am?

[lynn cates]

ultimately speaking

Hello Batman. Thanks.

Dr. Blackwell: "The deceased was lying on her left side . . . her legs were drawn up." ["Ultimate," p. 149.]

Cheers.
LC"

[Batman]

Let's get our facts in order--then this will be easier.

Cheers.
LC

Sure.

Reference your claim please. Mine is Phillips.

[lynn cates]

wacky

Hello Trevor. thanks.

"Wacky" is a good word. I can see wanting to save the BS story. It's nice and simple and totally precludes the "JTR" rot. I can also see one wishing to have "JTR." But one CANNOT have the cake and eat it.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

explanatory gaps

Hello (yet again) Batman. Thanks.

I mean the plethora of explanatory gaps. (See John's posts.)

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

facts

Hello (again) Batman. Thanks.

"Okay so if the tissue is fine then it was never in the ground but got spilled. People hold stuff falling back."

The ONLY spillage came from the doctors. (See inquest.)

"She was discovered on her back. So she must have been on her back at one point."

She most definitely was NOT on her back. She was found on her left side.

Let's get our facts in order--then this will be easier.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

mouth

Hello Batman. Thanks.

Stride never had any cachous in her mouth.

Problem? Only for those, like John, who do not believe in magic or levitation.

Cheers.
LC

[Jon Guy]

Hi John

Just to clarify a couple of points. Of course, when I referred to there being no evidence of the cachous in Stride's hand I should have said at the time of the assault witnessed by Scwartz. Regarding Mrs D's location, I would refer to Fanny Mortimer's account reported in the Evening News " It was almost incredible to be that the thing [Stride's murder] could have been done without the steward's wife hearing a noise, for she was sitting in the kitchen, from which a window opens four yards from the spot where the women was found."

Just a quickie before I depart for the weekend.

Mrs D`s location is one of those few ascertained facts.
To be honest I thought she was upstairs but according to Diemschutz:
I went into the club and asked where my wife was. I found her in the front room on the ground floor.

[GregBaron]

Ditch the BS Man...

Hi y’all,

Perhaps Stride screaming “not loudly” is because she had a mouth full of cachous. She was sweetening her breath when the cretin BS came barreling by and assaulted her. It is kind of hard to believe she kept a vise grip on these little sweets through the roughing up though purported by Schwarz and the subsequent murder….

Another scenario might be that BS man propositioned her and she insulted the nasty Neanderthal and he took exception. Liz was known for her mouth wasn’t she? Anyway, BS realizes he’s foiled and goes on his drunken way, Schwarz and Pipeman scramble off and then the true altercation takes place.

Liz is planning on meeting someone, perhaps a Jew coming from the club (Levy?) or the peaked cap man who told her he had to go do something and would meet her by the club in 15 minutes (get his knife?) - she gets her sweets out and freshens up, he meets her in the dark passage. When they begin to exit – heading toward the gate – I believe that is East – he grabs her scarf and pulls her backwards and down with his left hand and reaches across and slits her throat as she approaches the ground – she isn’t exactly on her back when sliced but rearing backward and downward and the actual slice takes place 2 or 3 feet above ground as he cuts and lays her on her side. I believe this basically supports Lynn’s re-enactment.

Did she say something to anger him? Again the sarcastic mouth – or was the attack pre-meditated? It seems the latter… Was this the same murderer of Eddowes, who knows? ..but for the life of me I can’t find a motive (sans Domestic) for pre-meditatively murdering a woman like Liz Stride…

The murder also seems a bit too clean and effective for the sloppy BS Man…

Greg

[Bridewell]

"The truth of the man's [Schwartz] statement is not wholly accepted."

Is this a reference to Schwartz himself or to the account given by the man who was arrested and who fitted the description given by Schwartz? I think it is the latter.

[John G]

Hello Jon,

Just to clarify a couple of points. Of course, when I referred to there being no evidence of the cachous in Stride's hand I should have said at the time of the assault witnessed by Scwartz. Regarding Mrs D's location, I would refer to Fanny Mortimer's account reported in the Evening News " It was almost incredible to be that the thing [Stride's murder] could have been done without the steward's wife hearing a noise, for she was sitting in the kitchen, from which a window opens four yards from the spot where the women was found."

[Trevor Marriott]

Hello Trevor. Thanks.

What is your suggested time?

Cheers.
LC

Lynn
I have no idea just trying take the heat out of some of the wacky scenarios being banded about on here

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk