Different Killers

[lynn cates]

nyet

Hello Batman.

"Both Chapman and Eddowes where murdered while lying down. Their necks slashed the same way."

No, they were NOT.

Cheers.
LC

[chrismasonic]

In 1888 experts in different fields were making advances in science...these were not the guys investigating the ripper murders...

the investigations were conducted using limited methods of the day...Mary Kelly was the only victim photographed at the scene...all the other murder scenes are detailed in personnel accounts...

strangulation 2 types of this...blood choke...and restrict/compromise the airway...blood choke would be ideal for this...choke em...lower them to the floor and rip away...

[Batman]

Hello Batman.

"Both Chapman and Eddowes where murdered while lying down. Their necks slashed the same way."

No, they were NOT.

Cheers.
LC

Both had deep gashes. Chapman's head was nearly off. Strides was extremely deep. Just look at the photos. Both done while lying down... Within minutes of each other because the killer was disturbed.

Add an extra killer... Why not propose a killer for each without a serial killer? Same pseudo-reasoning but obviously of much lower probability.

[chrismasonic]

Both done while lying down...Within minutes of each other because the killer was disturbed.

Both of these are guesses...

[Batman]

Both of these are guesses...

A guess is what you do when you have no evidence.

A hypothesis is what you form when you do and must be capable of falsification.

If you want the 'standing up' guess, then you have two falsifications in your way.

1. Stride has no blood on her front or any splatter signs.
2. Schwartz saw her been thrown down (which is strangely omitted by the critics). Even Strides coat was caked on one side. She was not found far in from the gate where Schwartz saw this.

Chapman was killed while lying down to explain the blood spray only a few inches from the ground on the side of the gate. Again no blood down the neck and front. Want to omit this also?

MJK was lying down in bed when killed. Nichols showed no signs of blood down her front either.

The idea of a killer striking from behind while they where standing up was never a contemporary view given the coroner's inquests revealed the detail that they where killed the way they where found, not just where they where found and killed.

I have yet to see any scientific evidence that an arm before someone's face can absorb their blood.

[chrismasonic]

1. I talked earlier about one possible explanation for this...this does not prove she was lying down

2. Israel Schwartz stated that when he was turning into Berner Street from Commercial Road, and having gotten as far as the gateway where the murder was committed, he saw a man stop and speak to a woman, who was standing in the gateway. He tried to pull the woman into the street, but he turned her round and threw her down on the footway and the woman screamed three times...that is all, a few sentences relayed to a police officer...it does not prove a killer was disturbed

various methods of pressure can be employed to control bleeding

and no man or his dog can tell you if Mary Kelly was killed lying down or otherwise...

just the facts please...

[Michael W Richards]

Both had deep gashes. Chapman's head was nearly off. Strides was extremely deep. Just look at the photos. Both done while lying down... Within minutes of each other because the killer was disturbed.

Im interested to hear where you any found evidence that the killer was disturbed with Stride...seems like the evidence suggests she appeared as "if gently lain down" on her left side, her clothing was undisturbed, her skirt hem just high enough to expose her boot tops, there simply isn't any physical evidence that I know of that suggests her killer intended to do more.

Perhaps you know differently?

Cheers

[Batman]

Schwartz.

Why do we need to propose another attacker? He likely saw the attack take place. She was thrown not gently laid down. Coat is caked on one side in mud as if dragged a few feet.

Again why not propose a different killer for each of the canonical 5 by this multiple killer hypothesis?

[lynn cates]

summary

Hello Batman.

"Same pseudo-reasoning. . ."

Excellent summary of your posts.

Cheers.
LC

[Ausgirl]

Chriis -- I'm almost scared to ask how it is that you're so "confident with this method".

As for "advanced science", using one's eyeballs is a skill that's been perfected for some time now, I believe.

The observations of police at the crime scenes have already been mentioned. Are you saying they were all mistaken? Also, did a sleeve block frontal arterial spray and spillage in all of the murders? If you're suggesting this, doesn't it actually support the idea of a single killer?

If not, in which particular murders do you propose the sleeve method was used?

[Batman]

Saying there are multiple killers of the canonical JtR victims because the victims just have neck cuts with a knife is like saying there are multiple killers of the Yorkshire ripper murders because the victims where just bashed in the head.

Also you would think the way the multi killer proponents are talking that there is no deviation between victims in other serial killer murders. This is just as patently false as one could get on the matter.

[chrismasonic]

not really...there's more to it than that...many of the surviving victims of the Yorkshire ripper provided police with an e-fit of the attacker and described his accent and voice...

I am saying it makes sense to me that the two guys Schwartz saw were likely responsible for Strides murder...we have no way of knowing if they intended to mutilate her

are you suggesting these guys teamed up for all of the murders?

[Jon Guy]

Hi Chrismasonic

Which murders in the Jack the Ripper police files do you feel were done by your arm method ?
I ask, because if each case is treated individually, there is crime scene evidence available which points to how they were attacked and killed.

[chrismasonic]

I just suggest this method could have been utilised...not that it was

properly applied a choke will render someone unconscious in approx. 7 seconds...

the assailant secures the choke, compressing venous outflow...as the choke tightens, the opponent’s carotid arteries narrow, blood flow to the brain falls below a critical level and consciousness is lost...the he goes to work with his knife to finish off the poor lady

of course this may or may not be what actually happened...

what concerns me is people filling in the blanks and accepting these as facts...that has been going on for 100 plus years

he was disturbed - you do not know that

a man thought to be Israel Schwartz also told another version of the story to a newspaper reporter...this time he described turning the corner from Commercial Road and noticing some distance in front of him a man walking as if partially intoxicated. He walked behind him, and presently he noticed a woman standing in the entrance to the alleyway where the body was found. The half-tipsy man halted and spoke to her. Schwartz saw him put his hand on her shoulder and push her back into the passage, but feeling rather timid of getting mixed up in quarrels, he crossed to the other side of the street. Before he had gone many yards, however, he heard the sound of a quarrel, and turned back to learn what was the matter, but just as he stepped from the kerb a second man came out of the doorway of a public house a few doors off, and shouting out some sort of warning to the man who was with the woman, rushed forward as if to attack the intruder. Schwartz states positively that he saw a knife in the second man's hand, but he waited to see no more. He fled...

this is why I believe these guys did Stride in...and I see no reason to link this with other murders

[Harry D]

One of my doubts about Stride is that 'BS' man seems quite uncharacteristic of the Ripper, accosting a woman outside a busy social club, in the middle of the street in front of multiple witnesses. Herein lies the fault with having a preconceived notion of the killer. He was only human, after all.