Why do we do this to ourselves?

[martin wilson]

Hi all

Great picture Paddy, take away everything but Bowler Jack and the man walking towards him and that could be Charles Cross waiting for Robert Paul.

I should add that as a lifelong fan of the Fortean Times, the amount of coincidence in the Ripper case is amazing.

Thanks pc Dunn, I'm not smart in the slightest but I will be on that website asap.

All the best.

[kensei]

Whenever I've wondered what it would take to solve the mystery with certainty, one scenario has come to mind. An old building is demolished, and inside a wall is found a box containing a signed confession letter, a knife with old dried blood on it, and jars containing preserved human organs (however well preserved they would or could still be after so much time). DNA is successfully harvested from the blood and the organs and they match- that knife did cut out those organs. Based on the sensation all this causes, someone offers to pay for the exhumation of some of the victims and their DNA is also extracted. It matches. And all of this would have to happen under absolutely unimpeachable conditions so as to preclude any suggestion of a hoax.

There is probably less than one chance in a million of that happening, but if it did would it be enough?

[Ausgirl]

would it be enough?

Not on your Nelly. There'd be conspiracy theorists claiming royalty sent the Illuminati out to stalk the bloodlines of suspect but innocent case players, sneaking up on them in the dead of night with syringes and some sort of hypnotic forget-me device, a la Men in Black, who stole their blood and planted the lot to divert attention once more from Prince Whatisname and his drippy dick.

It'd likely be enough for me. I think I'd feel kind of deflated, though.

[magoo]

I am not particularly interested in Jack the Ripper as such.My great great grandmother Mary Ann Jane ****** died violently (suicide) in the East end in 1888 .Macdonald was the coroner. Her husband was born round the corner from bucks row.Her family had owned a public house in fieldgate street. Through this site I have learned all sorts of things about their lives and pointed me to archives that I doubt I would find anywhere else. One researcher even gave me a transcript of my ancestors inquest

[GUT]

I am not particularly interested in Jack the Ripper as such.My great great grandmother Mary Ann Jane ****** died violently (suicide) in the East end in 1888 .Macdonald was the coroner. Her husband was born round the corner from bucks row.Her family had owned a public house in fieldgate street. Through this site I have learned all sorts of things about their lives and pointed me to archives that I doubt I would find anywhere else. One researcher even gave me a transcript of my ancestors inquest

Without a doubt the general info is incredible and the generosity of some here in sharing their time and knowledge is beyond generous.

[lynn cates]

I F

Hello Harry. Interesting thread.

"We can't even agree on how many of the victims can be attributed to this serial killer . . . "

Nor even that there WAS a serial killer active.

Cheers.
LC

[Ausgirl]

Without a doubt the general info is incredible and the generosity of some here in sharing their time and knowledge is beyond generous.

This. The dedication to research blows me away.

Sometimes I hope Jack is never discovered, for fear places like this might fizzle and much of value to me would be lost. But then I think about those women, and I want nothing more than the man ( or men!) who killed them to be named and shamed, at last (since we can't very well hang him/them).

That said, I feel a lot less frustration toward JtR than I do regarding some modern unsolved crimes, where the murdering sod might still be actually walking around.

[Azarna]

For me it is a very similar thing to genealogy.

A few nights ago I was reading a fascinating article in a back issue of The Ripperologist, about Victorian privvies, and whether JTR could have thrown his knife or body parts in them.

There was a lot of information about the history and construction of the privvy, then about how people can excavate them and the sorts of amazing artifacts they find within.

This is typical of the reading fare of a ripperologist. Stepping outside of the obvious "True Crimes" book coverage and delving into the when, where, how and why. Wandering back into the past and trying to understand what life was like and how it compares to now. Seeing things through new eyes. Discovering new things and new topics of intest.

It is about so much more than just "who was Jack the Ripper". The case/s are a springboard to so many other exciting things to learn about.

In the course of studying JTR I have learnt about period clothing, the history of the police force, forensics (then and now), map making, the psychology of witnesses, criminals, reporters and ripperologists!, the media and how it covered the situation, social changes, immigration, the British class system, medical practices and a thousand other things.

I don't believe we will ever know for sure who Jack the Ripper was. But I don't think that really matters. The continual investigations, the research, the comradely and passion around this subject has its own merits.

And I know I am not the only one who is hooked for life. Not because I morbid, blood thirsty or "weird" (well, maybe a bit weird) but because Ripperology is such an enormous, exciting, fascinating and ever evolving subject. And I love this!

[martin wilson]

Hi all

That's what I like about it, Jack as Folk Devil when as Mr Cates says, there is a strong case to be made that there was no JTR.

All the best.

[Tecs]

Let's face it, we're NEVER going to know who Jack the Ripper was. We can't even agree on how many of the victims can be attributed to this serial killer, what chance do we have of ever naming him? Obviously, half the fun of this field is engaging with fellow Ripperologists, challenging your own perceptions and learning more about all aspects of the case, but to quote the late great Alan Watts, it's all retch and no vomit, because while some have their own pet theories, ultimately we're no nearer to knowing who he was.

I want to know who this guy was, what his story was and what compelled him to do what he did, but the further we get from the case, the less evidence survives. For the rest of human history, Jack the Ripper is going to remain a shadow of the past. There is no escape from this Sisyphean torture.

Hi all and belated happy new year!

I used to think this, positively telling people that there's no chance any more of a definitive answer because even if a genuine looking document, (a confession, policeman's reminiscence or something else) were to come to light, the ripperologists would just tear it apart and in a few days the waters would be so muddy that we would be back to square one.

But a comment from R Michael Gordon changed my opinion. The only way I can see the case positively solved would be to link contemporary evidence with a suspect. eg. Builders working in the White Hart tear down a wall. A metal box is found which when opened is found to contain something nasty. When examined, the objects prove to be 2 uteri and a kidney. DNA testing compared with surviving relatives prove them to be Catherine's uterus and kidney and Annie's uterus. Even the most sceptical naysayer would surely agree in such circumstances that JTR was therefore George/Severin. (Please everybody, don't start a debate about when George lived at the White Hart etc, it's only an example to illustrate the point!)

The same would apply of course to any other address, Druitt's, Kosminski's whoever. The problem is though, knowing Ripperologists the way they are, if Kosminski's house yielded such a discovery they would probably start a debate about whether it was his brother in law who did it and then set Aaron up!

But, the above scenario is not entirely out of the question so there is a very faint glimmer of hope!

regards,

[Pcdunn]

Ahh-- talk about new lines of query!
Why did he/they take the organs?
What happened to the human remains?
Was JtR a cannibal, as suggested by the Lusk letter? (If it's not a hoax).
Did he get the brain disease cannibals can get and end up in an asylum after all?
Hmmmm....

[Penhalion]

You're thinking of kuru and its highly unlikely that JtR had it. It is primarily transmitted by eating brain tissue and JtR never went for brains. (Refraining from an editorial comment here). Also, there is a pretty long incubation period of about 14 years minimum. Unless Jack was chowing down on brains in 1874, its doubtful he had kuru in 1888.

[Errata]

You're thinking of kuru and its highly unlikely that JtR had it. It is primarily transmitted by eating brain tissue and JtR never went for brains. (Refraining from an editorial comment here). Also, there is a pretty long incubation period of about 14 years minimum. Unless Jack was chowing down on brains in 1874, its doubtful he had kuru in 1888.

Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease is a little bit more likely, and it's like human mad cow. And there are a couple of other prion diseases that can be transmitted through eating infected flesh. Of course, the physical symptoms are a real problem, just like with Kuru. The uncontrollable shaking makes for a lousy serial killer.

On the other hand, there's nothing to say he didn't get the clap from eating infected tissue, so there's a gross angle for you.

[martin wilson]

Hi all

There is Hannah Buswell in 1872, an account of which can be found on NINES, by Marlene Tromp (thanks again PC Dunn)
I believe Trevor Marriot has considered this as a possible JTR murder, obviously the thing that stands out is that he was Mr Spotty, reminding me of Mr Blotchy, and a 16 year gap would be ample time for the progression of a STD.

All the best.

[Harry D]

Hi all

There is Hannah Buswell in 1872, an account of which can be found on NINES, by Marlene Tromp (thanks again PC Dunn)

Hello, Martin.

Typed it into Google but computer says no.