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  • The Rookie Detective
    Superintendent
    • Apr 2019
    • 2231

    #31
    Le Grande getting himself involved with the Stride investigation, that included the shout of "Lipski!" and Le Grande's previous involvement in the investigation of the Lipski case a year earlier, that took place in the next street.
    "Great minds, don't think alike"

    Comment

    • The Rookie Detective
      Superintendent
      • Apr 2019
      • 2231

      #32
      Le Grande's apparent penchant for writing lots of letters in red ink, and some of the alleged Ripper correspondences being written in red ink and directly referencing the fact within the text itself.
      "Great minds, don't think alike"

      Comment

      • Wickerman
        Commissioner
        • Oct 2008
        • 15048

        #33
        Originally posted by Lewis C View Post
        Eddowes sometimes went by the name "Mary Kelly", the same name as the probable next Ripper victim.
        This actually goes full circle Lewis.

        Yes, Catherine Eddowes did go by the name Mary Kelly, but Mary Kelly had (we are told) previously been known as Mary Davis, and the next death, that of Rose Mylett, whose first name was Catherine, had also been known as Catherine Davis.
        Regards, Jon S.

        Comment

        • Lewis C
          Inspector
          • Dec 2022
          • 1388

          #34
          Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

          This actually goes full circle Lewis.

          Yes, Catherine Eddowes did go by the name Mary Kelly, but Mary Kelly had (we are told) previously been known as Mary Davis, and the next death, that of Rose Mylett, whose first name was Catherine, had also been known as Catherine Davis.
          Yes, that does make it even more interesting.

          Comment

          • Tom_Wescott
            Commissioner
            • Feb 2008
            • 7075

            #35
            I don't recall Eddowes going by the name 'Mary Kelly' but she did give the name 'Jane Kelly' and the address '6 Dorset Street', so police were actively looking for a woman named Kelly in Dorset Street following the double event. It's little wonder Mary was particularly nervous.

            Yours truly,

            Tom Wescott

            Comment

            • Wickerman
              Commissioner
              • Oct 2008
              • 15048

              #36
              Correct, Jane Kelly, my mistake.
              Regards, Jon S.

              Comment

              • Doctored Whatsit
                Sergeant
                • May 2021
                • 861

                #37
                Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
                I don't recall Eddowes going by the name 'Mary Kelly' but she did give the name 'Jane Kelly' and the address '6 Dorset Street', so police were actively looking for a woman named Kelly in Dorset Street following the double event. It's little wonder Mary was particularly nervous.

                Yours truly,

                Tom Wescott
                According to the Sourcebook, Station Sgt Byfield said at Eddowes' inquest that she gave the name Mary Ann Kelly, of 6 Fashion St.

                Comment

                • The Rookie Detective
                  Superintendent
                  • Apr 2019
                  • 2231

                  #38
                  Originally posted by Doctored Whatsit View Post

                  According to the Sourcebook, Station Sgt Byfield said at Eddowes' inquest that she gave the name Mary Ann Kelly, of 6 Fashion St.
                  That was also my understanding.

                  Hence why I submitted Marks Silverman as a potential person of interest.

                  He ran a Chandlers Shop from 6 Fashion Street. Marks made bespoke and customised walking sticks.

                  Marks was also admitted into the Jewish asylum by his family.

                  He was labelled as "Insane" and "Incurable"

                  A mad Jew residing and working from the exact same address that Eddowes was alleged to have given; 6 Fashion Street.

                  With Stride's connection to Fashion Street, we have both Eddowes and Stride linked to the same road at the very least.

                  Marks Silverman being an insane incurable Jew who was sent to the asylum, is something that IMO warrants his inclusion as a person of interest.


                  He has formed part of my top 6 suspects ever since I found him.

                  Last edited by The Rookie Detective; Yesterday, 08:30 AM.
                  "Great minds, don't think alike"

                  Comment

                  • The Rookie Detective
                    Superintendent
                    • Apr 2019
                    • 2231

                    #39
                    Originally posted by The Rookie Detective View Post

                    That was also my understanding.

                    Hence why I submitted Marks Silverman as a potential person of interest.

                    He ran a Chandlers Shop from 6 Fashion Street. Marks made bespoke and customised walking sticks.

                    Marks was also admitted into the Jewish asylum by his family.

                    He was labelled as "Insane" and "Incurable"

                    A mad Jew residing and working from the exact same address that Eddowes was alleged to have given; 6 Fashion Street.

                    With Stride's connection to Fashion Street, we have both Eddowes and Stride linked to the same road at the very least.

                    Marks Silverman being an insane incurable Jew who was sent to the asylum, is something that IMO warrants his inclusion as a person of interest.


                    He has formed part of my top 6 suspects ever since I found him.


                    I'd have to check my notes, but IIRC Marks Silverman's son (also named Marks) had a penchant for violence.

                    As a teenager he viciously stabbed another child during an altercation over a random argument between them.

                    The boy survived.

                    Perhaps this was an indication that mental health and/or violent tendencies ran through the family.

                    A couple of years back I did research the Silverman family, but all my notes on that particular line of investigation are in my loft somewhere, and so I'd need to route them out to verify everything.

                    That probably won't happen this side of Christmas.


                    "Great minds, don't think alike"

                    Comment

                    • The Rookie Detective
                      Superintendent
                      • Apr 2019
                      • 2231

                      #40
                      The Jew; Isaac Jacob Lewis, being found by PC Andrews close to the McKenzie murder site just after her body was discovered, and Isaac claiming he was on his way to buy supper at "McCarthy's shop in Dorset Street."

                      This provides us with a direct link between the McKenzie murder site, with the murder site of Kelly, just 9 months earlier (give or take a few yards)


                      What this coincidence does prove, is that IF Isaac was being truthful; that Jews went to Mccarthy shop for one reason of another.

                      If we consider that Mccarthy's shop may have been a front for possible organised legal activities, then it could be suggests that Isaac may have also been on his way to Dorset Street for more than just food.

                      Of course, if Jews DID use Mccarthy's shop (and it wasn't just used by gentiles) then it could imply that Jews used his shop around the time Kelly was slain.


                      When we then consider that there ARE Jewish links between Stride, Eddowes, and McKenzie, it could by proxy implicate Kelly's murder site as being a place where Jewish clientele chose to engage with prostitution, off road and away from the streets.

                      Is Mccarthy's shop and the possible Jewish clientele connection, an important clue in deciphering how Kelly may have also been linked to the Jewish community?

                      With the GSG, and Moab and Midian letter thrown in; the condicidences surrounding the Jewish links to the case, becomes ever more interesting in terms of their potential support for the Ripper having been a Jew.

                      And when we start accumulating too many random coincidences, it all starts to slip slowly into the realms of fact based data.

                      How many coincidences does it take for it to be one too many?
                      "Great minds, don't think alike"

                      Comment

                      • Lewis C
                        Inspector
                        • Dec 2022
                        • 1388

                        #41
                        There's also the claim by Hutchinson that the man he saw with Kelly looked Jewish. Elizabeth Long said that the man she saw with Chapman looked foreign: did she mean Jewish? But there were many Jewish people living in Whitechapel, so I don't find it at all remarkable that the Jewish theme pops up frequently.

                        Comment

                        • Tom_Wescott
                          Commissioner
                          • Feb 2008
                          • 7075

                          #42
                          Originally posted by Doctored Whatsit View Post

                          According to the Sourcebook, Station Sgt Byfield said at Eddowes' inquest that she gave the name Mary Ann Kelly, of 6 Fashion St.
                          Ah, yes, thank you. I was thinking only of the pawn ticket which was 'Jane' or 'Ann', IIRC, and depending on the paper reporting.

                          Yours truly,

                          Tom Wescott

                          Comment

                          • Debra A
                            Assistant Commissioner
                            • Feb 2008
                            • 3522

                            #43
                            In the 1911 census, Thomas Coram is listed as a labourer in house repair and living with his wife and family. Living as a boarder with the family is someone named Alfred [Reuben] Lusk,(1878-25/9/1918) a house repairer aged 33 who was a nephew of George Akin Lusk.

                            Comment

                            • The Rookie Detective
                              Superintendent
                              • Apr 2019
                              • 2231

                              #44
                              The torso killer throwing part of Elizabeth Jackson's thigh over the wall and into the grounds of the Mary Shelley Estate.

                              Mary Shelley was born on the 30th August (1797)

                              Mary Shelley wrote Frankenstein.

                              A story highlighting the clever yet macabre use of body parts.

                              (30th August 1888 was the night the Ripper went out hunting for a victim; eventually dispatching Nichols in the early hours of the 31st)

                              Jackson was around 5 to 6 months pregnant at the time she was dismembered; with some evidence to suggest it was an abortion gone wrong. The torso killer targeted her reproductive organs.

                              Mary Shelley's mother died of puerperal fever (a fatal bacterial infection of the upper gential tract) just 10 days after giving birth to Mary Shelley on the 10th September (1797)

                              The Pinchin Street torso was deposited and found in the early hours of the 10th September 1889.

                              The Ripper targeted the reproductive organs.

                              Elizabeth Jackson's womb was targeted.

                              The Pinchin Street torso had an abdominal cut


                              Coincidences coincidences.
                              Last edited by The Rookie Detective; Today, 04:56 PM.
                              "Great minds, don't think alike"

                              Comment

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