Request for info

[Herlock Sholmes]

I would personally speculate that he may have helped circulate descriptions of the victims among staff and neighboring Unions, and perhaps also helped identify and locate workhouse witnesses.

That’s a good call Kattrup. Very possible.

[Kattrup]

It does appear that way. It would be interesting to know what “helped out” actually involved or was it just that the bodies were sent to a mortuary of which he had overall charge?

I would personally speculate that he may have helped circulate descriptions of the victims among staff and neighboring Unions, and perhaps also helped identify and locate workhouse witnesses.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Quite possible. I was just trying to account also for Anderson’s comment that Vallance had helped out at several of the inquests, that seems to imply a more structured approach.

It does appear that way. It would be interesting to know what “helped out” actually involved or was it just that the bodies were sent to a mortuary of which he had overall charge?

[Kattrup]

I guess that another option might just have been chance Kattrup? Maybe he just happened to be on site early that day and felt that he should make an appearance?

Quite possible. I was just trying to account also for Anderson’s comment that Vallance had helped out at several of the inquests, that seems to imply a more structured approach.

[Herlock Sholmes]

.
Does not quite explain why Vallance would be there, the infirmary had its own staff.

My guess at the moment is that Chapman being a special highprofile case, he was informed and chose to go to assist and keep an eye on things.

I guess that another option might just have been chance Kattrup? Maybe he just happened to be on site early that day and felt that he should make an appearance?

[Kattrup]

Hi Kattrup

I believe Edmunds is a corruption of Mann.

Yes, I thought that might be the case, but as Mann was described as a workhouse inmate, it seemed a little odd, as the Mr. Edmunds mentioned in the ELO seemed more…respectable?

[Jon Guy]

In the East London Observer, Sept.1, 1888, the mortuary keeper is a Mr. Edmunds



The ELO version of events seems garbled compared to the inquest testimony, I suppose Mann and Hatfield could be the two scavengers mentioned, but odd that Edmunds is not mentioned anywhere.

I don’t think this Edmunds has been identified?
At any rate, just thought I’d mention the ELO-report since it shows that Vallance had no real business at the mortuary, which had its own keeper.

Hi Kattrup

I believe Edmunds is a corruption of Mann.

[Kattrup]

In the East London Observer, Sept.1, 1888, the mortuary keeper is a Mr. Edmunds

Constable Neale at once called for assistance, and with the help of some scavengers who were cleaning the roads at the time, managed to carry the body to the mortuary, which is situated in the Pavilion Yard close by. Mr. Edmunds, the keeper of the mortuary, was in attendance, and assisted by the officer and the scavengers, undressed the poor creature and placed her in one of the black coffins lying about the mortuary.

In the Dead-House.

The news of the terrible tragedy spread like wild-fire amongst the inhabitants of Buck's-row and the neighbourhood, who, filled with morbid curiosity, surrounded Eagle-place, the entrance by which the body was taken into the dead-house. The Whitechapel Mortuary is a little brick building situated to the right of the large yard used by the Board of Works for the storage of their material. Accompanied by Mr. Edmunds, the keeper, our reporter visited the temporary resting place of the victim on Friday morning. The first evidence seen of the tragedy on arriving in the yard was a bundle of what were little more than rags, of which the woman had been divested, and which were lying on the flagstones just outside the mortuary.

The ELO version of events seems garbled compared to the inquest testimony, I suppose Mann and Hatfield could be the two scavengers mentioned, but odd that Edmunds is not mentioned anywhere.

I don’t think this Edmunds has been identified?
At any rate, just thought I’d mention the ELO-report since it shows that Vallance had no real business at the mortuary, which had its own keeper.

[Kattrup]

I wonder whether there was an arrangement or rule that in death by natural causes, Vallance ensured the body would be stripped and washed beforehand to assist the doctors, but that in murder cases this was inappropriate, and he didn't realise.

I wondered much the same thing in the other thread ‘Chapman timeline’

It could have been a contributing factor. Staff just following procedure.
Does not quite explain why Vallance would be there, the infirmary had its own staff.

My guess at the moment is that Chapman being a special highprofile case, he was informed and chose to go to assist and keep an eye on things.

[Doctored Whatsit]

Good point Doc, but shouldn't he have realised it after it was pointed out at the Nichols inquest, and not continued to do so again in the Chapman case, much to the annoyance of Dr Phillips? Would not Mann have informed him that the police had instructed that the body was not to be touched?

I agree, but I am not quite sure exactly what he would have been told, and Mann was unreliable at best, I think.

[GBinOz]

I wonder whether there was an arrangement or rule that in death by natural causes, Vallance ensured the body would be stripped and washed beforehand to assist the doctors, but that in murder cases this was inappropriate, and he didn't realise.

Good point Doc, but shouldn't he have realised it after it was pointed out at the Nichols inquest, and not continued to do so again in the Chapman case, much to the annoyance of Dr Phillips? Would not Mann have informed him that the police had instructed that the body was not to be touched?

[Doctored Whatsit]

I wonder whether there was an arrangement or rule that in death by natural causes, Vallance ensured the body would be stripped and washed beforehand to assist the doctors, but that in murder cases this was inappropriate, and he didn't realise.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Thanks again to both Kattrup and Frank.

[Kattrup]

Hi Mike & Kattrup,

This thread also reveals a bit about William Vallance's importance, if you will. According to the OP, he assisted at most of the inquests on the bodies of the East End victims. It's a pitty is doesn't state in what way he's supposed to have assisted.

Anderson Interview Nov 14 by the NY Sun - Casebook: Jack the Ripper Forums

Cheers,
Frank

Thank you, Frank, it’s an interesting mention.

Was not Martha Tabram, Mary Ann Nichols and Annie Chapman taken to the same mortuary, the measly shed used by the Whitechapel Infirmary, the poor conditions of said shed causing Philips and Baxter, if I recall correctly, to protest and call for a new mortuary, erected in 1889?

If it is correct that those three victims passed through the mortuary of the Whitechapel Union’s infirmary, it seems possible that Vallance would have been present in each case.

Also, there’s mention of the descriptions of some of the victims being circulated around infirmaries, to aid in identification, perhaps Vallance helped with that.

[FrankO]

Hi Mike & Kattrup,

This thread also reveals a bit about William Vallance's importance, if you will. According to the OP, he assisted at most of the inquests on the bodies of the East End victims. It's a pitty is doesn't state in what way he's supposed to have assisted.

Anderson Interview Nov 14 by the NY Sun - Casebook: Jack the Ripper Forums

Cheers,
Frank