Local Knowledge

[Losmandris]

I know it is veering off topic a little but chances of the murderer cutting himself in the pitch black, with all that clothing to get through and under some serious time pressure are pretty high I would imagine.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Good suggestion RD. For me, the biggest objection to Mackenzie as a ripper victim are those abdominal cuts. I’ve previously thought that she might have been killed by someone that she knew or had a connection to in a fit of temper and, in panic, he decided to make some ripper-like cuts to make her appear a ripper victim but he just couldn’t go through with full on mutilations. Your suggestion that an injury might have been the reason is plausible (probably more likely than my own suggestion)

[Losmandris]

Hi Tristan,

Maybe he checked out the area beforehand to familiarise himself?

It would certainly make sense! And is not beyond the bounds of possibility.

[The Rookie Detective]

A potential life changing injury caused by a misplaced cut during the obliteration of MJK, may not only explain the reason why there was a distinct 8 month gap before McKenzie was murdered, but it may also explain why McKenzie's injuries were not even close to the severity inflicted on MJK and Eddowes.

There is a scenario whereby the killer cut himself, was severely ill from an infection, and then after months of recovery finally took to re-commencing operations in July 1889 with McKenzie.

Only this time he lacked the dexterity and physical capabilities required to inflict the level of injuries he had previously delivered upon his previous 2 victims.

That may explain why McKenzie's wounds, body position etc.. were very similar to that of Nichols.

Was the killer going back to basics?

Perhaps the killer had intended to cut and eviscerate McKenzie exactly like he had done with Eddowes, but simply couldn't do what he wanted because of his previous rampage on MJK that all but put an end to his career as a killer of Unfortunates.

What kind of wound could do that?

The more obvious ones i would suggest;

a cut to the tendon of the thumb
a cut to the artery running through the thumb
severance/partial severance of a finger
a cut to the wrist/ lower forearm from a broken blade snapped from the hilt of his knife that unexpectedly rebounded (this may have occurred during the process of trying to decapitate MJK)


One thing the killer almost certainly would never have admitted to; that he had made a botch job and had accidentally cut himself.

Although the idea that a psychopath like the Ripper may also have been an overzealous moron who wasn't as skilled with a knife as he thought he was, makes me chuckle

[GBinOz]

Cheers Gazza,

I’d considered the idea of the apron being used on an injury sustained during the murder (although the suggestion didn’t originate with me) but I hadn’t considered George’s suggestion that the killer might have did from an infection causing the cessation of the murders. I’ll through in another suggestion for thoughts…could an infection have led to an amputation? The loss of a hand would have put paid to the killers career.

Have we come up with to new ‘possibles’ as to why the murders appeared to stop?

Hi Herlock,

There are always possibles, it's the probables that count. Loss of a limb is a possible.

Cheers, George

[Herlock Sholmes]

Cheers Gazza,

I’d considered the idea of the apron being used on an injury sustained during the murder (although the suggestion didn’t originate with me) but I hadn’t considered George’s suggestion that the killer might have did from an infection causing the cessation of the murders. I’ll through in another suggestion for thoughts…could an infection have led to an amputation? The loss of a hand would have put paid to the killers career.

Have we come up with to new ‘possibles’ as to why the murders appeared to stop?

[Enigma]

Thanks Herlock for starting this interesting thread.

Until the development of penicillin, any infection had potentially fatal consequences. There are instances of patients who died from what were seemingly minor injuries such as being scratched by a rose bush.

If JtR's did cut himself and the wound was contaminated by faeces or other material the consequences were potentially serious. As RD, and others have speculated, an infection might account for the lapse between murders.

In my view, Jack did live locally, and if not, then he certainly did live close by and was very familiar with the area possibly through his work.

Regards, Gazza

[GBinOz]

Ooooo! I hadn't thought of that before! I can kick myself because I put out the theory that the Ripper injured himself. But wouldn't some simple germicidal/antiseptic remedies be readily available at that time, like iodine...? Even so, if he used a cloth soaked in blood and feces to bind his wound, he might well have topped himself in the long run, as an injury like that can turn into toxic/septic shock rapidly.

Hi HIB,

Antiseptic remedies of the time were really only effective if applied in time, and I would suppose that Jack would have had some reluctance to resort to medical assistance until his situation became critical. The possibility that he died of said infection is very inconvenient for nearly every named suspect

Cheers, George

[Holmes' Idiot Brother]

Hi George,

I’d forgotten that you’d proposed this theory too. I could only remember Paul Begg mentioning it (and I’m not exactly certain that I’m right on that) I think it’s a very plausible suggestion. Maybe he stopped in the Goulston Street doorway to check the wound or because he hadn’t had time to tie it properly and it was coming loose and he then decided to re-dress it using something that he had on him, like a neck scarf or a handkerchief which led him to discard the apron piece?

That's extremely likely, especially since the Ripper (if the theory is true) did himself no favors by allowing his blood to mix with foreign blood and feces. Eeew.

[Holmes' Idiot Brother]

It’s possible RD. George’s suggestion that the killer might have died from an infection is a good one imo. Especially if the killer was reluctant to go to a hospital.

Ooooo! I hadn't thought of that before! I can kick myself because I put out the theory that the Ripper injured himself. But wouldn't some simple germicidal/antiseptic remedies be readily available at that time, like iodine...? Even so, if he used a cloth soaked in blood and feces to bind his wound, he might well have topped himself in the long run, as an injury like that can turn into toxic/septic shock rapidly.

[Tani]

Hi Tani,

I’d certainly agree that the victims knowledge would have helped. Seeing a Constable pass would have let them know that they were ok for a few minutes until he was due to return. Knowing the best places to find victims would certainly have helped to in prevented aimless walking around. Your suggestion that the hands might have known the ripper isn't one that I've heard before.

It struck me when Emma Smith passed a Police Station on her way home and to the Hospital and said nothing to anyone. One wonders why she would do that given she'd nearly been murdered right there and then. We know the prostitutes weren't exactly friendly with police, but her injury and blood loss must have been so obvious to anyone passing (funny walk, moans of pain, trail of blood, beaten up). Not telling anyone seems fairly extreme and it's even been suggested that isn't wasn't even a gang but a single individual and that she lied about the attack in that way. One wonders why. I think it's reasonable to assume there was much more context to the attack than just a random gang slamming a prostitute, and that's what she didn't want to reveal. One then wonders how many people at that time and place have such secrets, knew murderers, gang members, extorted money etc. It likely wasn't worth rotting in a 19th c. jail or hanging for to expose someone who hurt you or others if you were also invovled somehow.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Some excellent point being made all round here, and some excellent hypotheses too.

I agree with the idea that the killer of Eddowes may have injured himself.

But I would extend this idea and state that I think it's almost certain (IMO) that the killer inadvertently cut himself when he butchered MJK to pieces.

It would be statistically likely that the killer at least sustained some form of self-inflicted wound as he was working on MJK.

The reasoning behind this may be the answer as to why there was a time gap between MJK and the subsequent murder of Alice McKenzie 8 months later.

I would apply the same logic and look for anyone admitted to a hospital/infirmary shortly after the murder of.MJK, with an unexplained knife wound.

It’s possible RD. George’s suggestion that the killer might have died from an infection is a good one imo. Especially if the killer was reluctant to go to a hospital.

[The Rookie Detective]

Some excellent point being made all round here, and some excellent hypotheses too.

I agree with the idea that the killer of Eddowes may have injured himself.

But I would extend this idea and state that I think it's almost certain (IMO) that the killer inadvertently cut himself when he butchered MJK to pieces.

It would be statistically likely that the killer at least sustained some form of self-inflicted wound as he was working on MJK.

The reasoning behind this may be the answer as to why there was a time gap between MJK and the subsequent murder of Alice McKenzie 8 months later.

I would apply the same logic and look for anyone admitted to a hospital/infirmary shortly after the murder of.MJK, with an unexplained knife wound.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Some really interesting points above. Thanks for contributing everyone!

I sometimes wonder if JTR stalked some of his victims before hand. In doing so he built up a clear picture of not only their habits but also those of the police. I suspect all the victims were killed at their usual places of business as it were. Other serial killers have demonstrated this kind of behaviour, so at least a possibility I believe.

Hi Tristan,

Maybe he checked out the area beforehand to familiarise himself?

[Losmandris]

Some really interesting points above. Thanks for contributing everyone!

I sometimes wonder if JTR stalked some of his victims before hand. In doing so he built up a clear picture of not only their habits but also those of the police. I suspect all the victims were killed at their usual places of business as it were. Other serial killers have demonstrated this kind of behaviour, so at least a possibility I believe.