A fragile and delicate matter

[Cap'n Jack]

I've been looking at a lot of cases recently, involving women who were described as 'unwell' at the time of their murder in the LVP; and hadn't fully realised that this was the normal manner to refer to a woman who was having her period - though I have always had that suspicion.
I note that several of the victims of the Whitechapel Murderer were described as 'unwell' or 'not well' on the night of their demise.
Many of us may have thought this a reference to their general health rather than their particular condition at the time.
This interests me.
I find that the woman of the time employed what were termed as 'diapers' or 'napkins' to stem the flow but one supposes that in a flood such little nappies might have been forgotten.
One case that particularly struck me from 1885 was a young prostitute up on a murder charge who when examined by the female searcher at the Metropolitan police station was pronounced to be pregnant because she was not wearing a 'diaper'.
This led me to the fragile conclusion that the women of the LVP may well have been unaware of their natural cycle, and might have worn 'diapers' all the time, just in case.

[Ally]

Er...so because one anonymous woman of indeterminate intellect and education made a ludicrous comment, on this you conceive the notion that Victorian women were incapable of counting, borderline retarded and incapable of recognizing menstrual flow as a cyclical and monthly occurance so they went around in 'diapers' all the time?

Victorian women recognize menstrual cycles as being cyclical. The concept of "regular" periods was so entrenched in the mindset that some male doctors (just like with everything else regarding females) considered an "irregular" cycle as proof that a woman was mentally unbalanced. Regular balanced mind =regular balanced flow, don'tcha know.

[Cap'n Jack]

gawd bless you, Ally. I knew that your brute force and ignorance would help in such delicate matter.
Or perhaps the queen is 'unwell' today?
I started this thread because I have the notion that the Whitechapel Murderer was uncomfortable with women who were in their cycle, and had the notion himself that he might cure them by 'bleeding' them.
A common practice of the time.
One is able to meet women today who are completely unaware of their natural cycle, believing it to be a visitation from the dark side, and forcing them to be shut away from society for that period.
Have you ever seen a tampon on display in a Riyadh supermarket?

[The Good Michael]

Cap'n Kidd...ing?

Mike

[Ally]

You didn't ask about Riyadh, you asked about Victorian England but in any case, let's address Riyadh. Although if you've gone looking for tampons in Riyadh, one can only wonder why? Is your cycle irregular? But as for your assumption that Saudi Arabian women are also somehow unaware of their natural cycle, please. While tampons may not be available in every store, I guarantee you pads are and the average arab woman isn't stupid and is perfectly aware of her natural cycle. Oh and a quick google check of Tourism, packing for, Riyadh, Tampons" tells me that as a tourist travelling in Saudi Arabia and Riyadh, I will find tampons available. So you know, let's not let the facts get in the way of your quaint ideas about women and their overwhelming ignorance.

[Cap'n Jack]

Tourists in Saudi?
Well, I suppose your autocratic approach would be well received there, Ally, just don't try driving a car on your own though, or you'd get a public whipping.
Unlike you, I do not see the women of the LVP as modern girls, like your good self, with a complete sexual education; a complete understanding of their natural cycles... and the biological reasons for them.
It was a subject beyond the taboo, creating an atmosphere of fear, misunderstanding and loathing. I was recently reading an account of young girls being educated in Catholic convents in Ireland in the early 20th century, and many of these girls related how they were beaten by the nuns when they had their first period, and then locked in dark rooms until the curse had passed. Many of these girls did not reach a full understanding of their biological condition until they became mature women many years later.
It was not called the 'curse' for nothing you know, Ally.
Given the severe Victorian attitude to such matters I would imagine that many girls grew into women without the slightest clue of why they were bleeding, apart from the fact that they were 'unwell'.
Equally many of the young men of the LVP would not have had the slightest clue as to what was happening during a woman's cycle; and I have always seen the germ of a motive in the fact that women do bleed.
A shocking occurence if one doesn't understand what is going on; and what I'm saying is that many in the LVP did not understand... what was going on. They knew it was going on. Obviously, you little Sherlock you.
Or do I mean Shylock?

[Limehouse]

Hi Cap'n,

This is indeed a delicate subject. I think I can take it for granted that you have never, yourself, had a menstrual period. Forgive me, but I personally think it is unlikely that even desperate prostitutes would have gone looking for casual sex if they were having a period - especially in the first day or two of the bleed. It is uncomfortable and messy in the extreme and most men would have run a mile if they suspected the woman was 'on the rag' as they say.

[Tom_Wescott]

Limestone,

Many prozzies then, whether they were ragging or not, would use their thighs as a surrogate you-know-what. Or they would do oral or anal. Being a one-trick pony wouldn't pay the doss.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Limehouse]

Limestone,

Many prozzies then, whether they were ragging or not, would use their thighs as a surrogate you-know-what. Or they would do oral or anal. Being a one-trick pony wouldn't pay the doss.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Hi Tom,

Good points - but gripping the you-know-what between the thighs might still have been difficult and you have to be a woman to understand why. Yes, the anal bit rings (pardon the pun) true and I do believe it was a common method between prostitutes and clients at this time.

Fair enough.

[revpetero]

Limestone,

Many prozzies then, whether they were ragging or not, would use their thighs as a surrogate you-know-what. Or they would do oral or anal. Being a one-trick pony wouldn't pay the doss.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

thank you for setting back political correctness to 1888. I thought this statement is one of the best i've ever read

Peter

[Debra A]

Actually it's an interesting subject, I can't see how it is delicate compared to talking about a man who went around ripping out the reproductive organs of women.

AP, it would be good to see the source case of your first post.

This led me to the fragile conclusion that the women of the LVP may well have been unaware of their natural cycle, and might have worn 'diapers' all the time, just in case

.

Women would have been well aware of their natural cycle I'm sure, while men thought they knew everything and were deciding what was best for them the women were traditionally educating each other, generation by generation. The papers were full of adverts for potions, poisons and gadgets to combat 'irregular menstruation' problems,...hardly worth it the women didn't even realise there was a regularity involved!The napkin use is interesting though. In the Pinchin Street case I believe such a thing was found close to the scene in Batty Street of all places.

Equally many of the young men of the LVP would not have had the slightest clue as to what was happening during a woman's cycle

Now this I can believe!

[Natalie Severn]

For a flaunting ,in your face ,"take" on the curse in the mid eighteen hundreds what about Marguerite Duplessis, a French "courtesan" of exceptional beauty , who wore a red camelia when she had her period and a white camelia when she didnt.She died tragically of TB when she was 23 but to this day romantic souls take the red and white flowers and lay them on her grave in Montmartre cemetary in Paris.There are even three operas about La Camelia or " La Dame aux Camelias"-La Traviata/La Boheme and the theme of Madame Butterfly.Hows that for celebrating the monthly event? Oh-and every man in Paris,young ,middle aged or old,knew full well what she was signalling, Debs!

[Tom_Wescott]

thank you for setting back political correctness to 1888. I thought this statement is one of the best i've ever read

You're welcome and thanks.

gripping the you-know-what between the thighs might still have been difficult and you have to be a woman to understand why

Difficult or not, it was a common practice for prostitutes then. Their clients were drunk and doing it in the dark, so it may not have been as terribly hard as you think.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

P.S. Victorian men were not idiots. They knew as much about a woman's cycle as we know today.

[c.d.]

For a flaunting ,in your face ,"take" on the curse in the mid eighteen hundreds what about Marguerite Duplessis, a French "courtesan" of exceptional beauty , who wore a red camelia when she had her period and a white camelia when she didnt.She died tragically of TB when she was 23 but to this day romantic souls take the red and white flowers and lay them on her grave in Montmartre cemetary in Paris.There are even three operas about La Camelia or " La Dame aux Camelias"-La Traviata/La Boheme and the theme of Madame Butterfly.Hows that for celebrating the monthly event? Oh-and every man in Paris,young ,middle aged or old,knew full well what she was signalling, Debs!

I wonder what she wore when she just wasn't in the mood.

c.d.

[Debra A]

P.S. Victorian men were not idiots. They knew as much about a woman's cycle as we know today.

I doubt it, we've all advanced since then...and now you have women telling you about! ...which was a no no in those days I think.

PC? LVP was not PC!!!!