A Victorian Apron Full of Questions...

[Abby Normal]

PC Smith saw Stride with a man wearing a hard felt deerstalker hat of dark colour.

nice try. marshall, schwartz and lawende and co all saw a man with a peaked cap the night of the double event. a deerstalker is also peaked, Iknow on both sides.-so ill be generous and say smith sighting is a wash. I still win 3-nil. and theres church lane man too just for a bonus. lol

oh by the way the lead cop on the case also said the ripper wore a peaked cap.

the ripper was wearing a peaked cap, "like a sailor would wear" the night of the double event. no question.one with a peak and not a brim.

and just so you know im not a total contrarian nob ill concede though(to DJA and you both) on the night of Marys murder, the ripper was probably wearing a wide awake hat kind of like the one you posted. One with a brim and not a peak.

[Fiver]

last time I checked a cap is a hat

Not all hats are caps.

A sailor hat looks nothing like a fisherman's cap.

[Fiver]

we were talking of the night of the double event

PC Smith saw Stride with a man wearing a hard felt deerstalker hat of dark colour.

[Abby Normal]

Your first picture was known as a "fisherman's cap" or a Breton cap". It appears to be a modern reproduction.

Your second picture is at least in period, but it is again a cap, not a hat.

last time I checked a cap is a hat

[Abby Normal]

Sarah Lewis deposed: I live at 24, Great Pearl-street, and am a laundress. I know Mrs. Keyler, in Miller's-court, and went to her house at 2, Miller's-court, at 2.30a.m. on Friday. It is the first house. I noticed the time by the Spitalfields' Church clock. When I went into the court, opposite the lodging-house I saw a man with a wideawake. There was no one talking to him. He was a stout-looking man, and not very tall. The hat was black. I did not take any notice of his clothes. The man was looking up the court; he seemed to be waiting or looking for some one.

we were talking of the night of the double event

[DJA]

given that all the witnesses describe a cap with a peak its obvious they are talking about the sailers hat Abberline refers to, that gary posted and the type that chapman is seen wearing in the infamous photo.

Sarah Lewis deposed: I live at 24, Great Pearl-street, and am a laundress. I know Mrs. Keyler, in Miller's-court, and went to her house at 2, Miller's-court, at 2.30a.m. on Friday. It is the first house. I noticed the time by the Spitalfields' Church clock. When I went into the court, opposite the lodging-house I saw a man with a wideawake. There was no one talking to him. He was a stout-looking man, and not very tall. The hat was black. I did not take any notice of his clothes. The man was looking up the court; he seemed to be waiting or looking for some one.

[Fiver]

Bearing in mind that the majority of sailors wandering around the East End at the time would have been foreign merchantmen, it’s not clear what the locals would have meant by a ‘sailor’s hat’. Something like these would be my best guess.

Your first picture was known as a "fisherman's cap" or a Breton cap". It appears to be a modern reproduction.

Your second picture is at least in period, but it is again a cap, not a hat.

[Abby Normal]

Clearly the times given are estimates, something everyone (except Fisherman) seems to understand.

The Church Lane man was wearing "a short jacket and a sailor's hat". That would be a sennet hat, as per the 20 March 1888 edition of the Navy List.

Sennet hats looked like this.




According to Swanson's notes, Lawende saw a man wearing a "grey cloth cap with peak of same colour", which is different color, material, and style from a "sailor hat".

given that all the witnesses describe a cap with a peak its obvious they are talking about the sailers hat Abberline refers to, that gary posted and the type that chapman is seen wearing in the infamous photo.

[MrBarnett]

Clearly the times given are estimates, something everyone (except Fisherman) seems to understand.

The Church Lane man was wearing "a short jacket and a sailor's hat". That would be a sennet hat, as per the 20 March 1888 edition of the Navy List.

Sennet hats looked like this.




According to Swanson's notes, Lawende saw a man wearing a "grey cloth cap with peak of same colour", which is different color, material, and style from a "sailor hat".

‘Allo, sailor.

[MrBarnett]

Bearing in mind that the majority of sailors wandering around the East End at the time would have been foreign merchantmen, it’s not clear what the locals would have meant by a ‘sailor’s hat’. Something like these would be my best guess.

[DJA]

Worth a read.

Hutchinson The Sailor Man - Casebook: Jack the Ripper Forums

[MrBarnett]

Clearly the times given are estimates, something everyone (except Fisherman) seems to understand.

The Church Lane man was wearing "a short jacket and a sailor's hat". That would be a sennet hat, as per the 20 March 1888 edition of the Navy List.

Sennet hats looked like this.




According to Swanson's notes, Lawende saw a man wearing a "grey cloth cap with peak of same colour", which is different color, material, and style from a "sailor hat".

London wasn’t a Royal naval port. Try again looking for merchant navy hats

[MrBarnett]

Damned if you do or don't. Yeah.
Here's what I DO know.
Cross/Lechmere did NOT kill Nichols.
And he wasn't the Ripper.

And you know that how?

[BooksbyBJThompson]

Sorry, I misunderstood the question. Unless Lechmere or a member of his immediate family kept a diary and happened to write it down, I doubt we will ever know.

Of course if a diary did surface, the people trying to fit Lechmere up for the crime would say changing his route meant he had a guilty conscience and it proves he was guilty, while keeping his route meant he was reliving the murder in his imagination every time that he passed the spot and it proves he was guilty.

Damned if you do or don't. Yeah.
Here's what I DO know.
Cross/Lechmere did NOT kill Nichols.
And he wasn't the Ripper.

[BooksbyBJThompson]

If it was a plan to implicate the Jews, it was a pretty poor one. As you note, the GSG is an oblique reference, not a clear statement. There was no way of knowing that the apron piece would have been discovered by the police instead of just trodden under foot or pitched into a rubbish bin. There was no way of knowing that police would see the GSG before it was deliberately or accidentally erased.

If the Ripper really wanted Jews to be blamed, a far smarter method would have been to chalk a clear message at one of the murder sites.

Yep, yep, and a big fat yep.
Write at the kill site like every other murderer has done since forever.
I was waiting for someone to say this!
There was zero way Jack would know
1) a cop going down a certain street
2) looking into a certain dark alcove
3) would find a certain torn apron
4) that night.
You want to have an affect?
You chalk it up all you want at the kill sites.
Someone here on this thread talked on probabilities.
Well, here you are. Probability.