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  • A question or several for the group. Newbie here!

    First, if this is the wrong place for me to say hello and to ask for some guidance on being a more informed member of this forum, Mods, please feel free to move this to the appropriate area.

    Now, on to the meat of this. I have been working for about 15 years (possibly longer) as a forensic pharmacologist. My specialty is DID or DID Not. Or, Drug-induced-death or Not Drug-induced-death. This frequently devolves into questions about the impact of multiple drugs found in the deceased individual and what role they may have had or contributed to the person's demise.

    To evaluate these things, I can review: Toxicology testing, history of the decedent, investigative reports, review of items retrieved from the scene (prescription vials, tablet count, syringes, wrappers that are associated with illicit drug use, photographs, autopsy reports, etc.) Witness reports, confessions, or initial statements from persons of interest are all considered in my evaluations. Each datapoint presents its own problem. And each, contributes to my final impressions of a case. Some contribute greater weight, and others lesser. The framework of my evaluation depends on my ability to discern the factual contribution that each item contributes to the whole picture.

    So, when it comes to Ripperology, we are some 130 plus years removed from the events. There are no videos, no laboratory reports, and there is no repository of policing materials. None of the things that I rely on. I am a fish out of water.

    As I understand it, much of the police reporting has gone missing (theft, house cleaning, recycling) and that we depend on newspapers for some of our facts. I have a number of good books that I am reading now to help bring me up to speed, but I am curious on two major points:

    1. How good is the newspaper reporting of the time? I suspect that, then as now, some were trustworthy, and others were not. Are there resources that can be suggested to me that will help me as I read about information that is derived from newspapers of the time.

    2. Is there any reasonable estimate about what was lost in terms of police documents from the time. I have heard that one or several Ripperologists were able to save some police records from discussion. Based on what I have read so far, it does not seem that there was a "smoking gun" document among the "lost" records.

    I greatly appreciate your tolerance for my long post and will be indebted to you for any useful guidance that you can provide. I plan on doing my homework.

    Thank you,
    Richard

  • #2
    Welcome to the site.

    If you don't already have them you need, The Ultimate Jack The Ripper Sourcebook -Evans/Skinner and Jack The Ripper Letters From Hell, by the same authors. Those books cover just about all the official documents on the case. There are plenty of other worthwhile books, but these are pure source material.

    The newspaper coverage is haphazard, since they are often the only source material for some aspects of the case, we don't actually know how accurate they are or which ones are actually the most accurate. Certainly some cover the case in more detail than others, but gems of information can often be found in unusual publications.

    As a newcomer, I'd strongly recommend avoiding suspect based books, posts and information until you've had a chance to evaluate the raw information first. Given your background it will be interesting to read your observations.

    Be aware that you will probably encounter some hostile replies when you do. Don't be put of by them.

    Good luck!
    dustymiller
    aka drstrange

    Comment


    • #3
      Thank you very much for your recommendations and insight.

      Cheers

      Comment


      • #4
        I second the two books previously suggested.

        As to what is missing, we can really only guess most of the time. A few police seemed pretty sure who it was, among the missing there may be something that adds weight to their opinions, but unless there is a miracle find we are forever in the dark.

        Re newspapers my suggestion is read as many reports of the same incident as you can often (but not always) that will ease the path to the most accurate account.
        G U T

        There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

        Comment


        • #5
          When reviewing newspaper articles, bear in mind it was the start of the sensationalist tabloid era and much was written to boost newspaper sales.

          Personally, I rarely give any credence to anything produced by The Star for that purpose. That paper probably did more damage to the case than any other newspaper of the time.

          Sourcebook is a must.
          Author of 'Jack the Ripper: Threads' out now on Amazon > UK | USA | CA | AUS
          JayHartley.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by RManny View Post
            1. How good is the newspaper reporting of the time? I suspect that, then as now, some were trustworthy, and others were not.
            Thank you,
            Richard
            Hi Richard,

            Welcome to the forum. In Australia at present the newspapers all fall into the later category. Casebook tends to favour the Daily Telegraph so I use that, The Times and The Evening News. It is tiring checking every newspaper, because they are contradictory even reporting the same words, such as the inquests. You can depend on the fact that if you try to make a point using a report from one paper, someone will contradict you with a report from another. But that's all part of the fun.

            Cheers, George
            The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.

            ​Disagreeing doesn't have to be disagreeable - Jeff Hamm

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by RManny View Post

              As I understand it, much of the police reporting has gone missing (theft, house cleaning, recycling) and that we depend on newspapers for some of our facts.
              While much of the police reports haven't survived, here's a list compiled by Chris Scott of the MEPO reports that do exist.



              On certain points the existing police reports corroborate what was reported in the press.
              For example, the press report that William Nichols knew his wife Mary Ann Nichols was prostituting herself can be substantiated by Inspector Helson's summary of the investigation that survives as MEPO 3/140 ff. 235-8.

              JM



              Comment


              • #8
                Thank you all for your suggestions and clarifications. The exploration of historical documents is both remarkable and new to me.

                Richard

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by jmenges View Post

                  While much of the police reports haven't survived, here's a list compiled by Chris Scott of the MEPO reports that do exist.



                  On certain points the existing police reports corroborate what was reported in the press.
                  For example, the press report that William Nichols knew his wife Mary Ann Nichols was prostituting herself can be substantiated by Inspector Helson's summary of the investigation that survives as MEPO 3/140 ff. 235-8.

                  JM
                  Hi JM,

                  Thank you for the link to that valuable resource.

                  Cheers, George
                  The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.

                  ​Disagreeing doesn't have to be disagreeable - Jeff Hamm

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by erobitha View Post
                    Personally, I rarely give any credence to anything produced by The Star for that purpose. That paper probably did more damage to the case than any other newspaper of the time.
                    But not Harry Dam, right?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Scott Nelson View Post

                      But not Harry Dam, right?
                      I really admire your commitment to your Harry Dam theory, if that makes things more palatable for you?
                      Author of 'Jack the Ripper: Threads' out now on Amazon > UK | USA | CA | AUS
                      JayHartley.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        No commitment, just a suggestion.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by erobitha View Post

                          I really admire your commitment to your Harry Dam theory, if that makes things more palatable for you?
                          whats the harry Dam theory?
                          "Is all that we see or seem
                          but a dream within a dream?"

                          -Edgar Allan Poe


                          "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                          quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                          -Frederick G. Abberline

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Sarcasm. Harry Dam wrote for the Star newspaper and was likely responsible for the Leather Apron "myth".

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

                              whats the harry Dam theory?
                              Thanks, I wondered about that too and didn't want to look foolish by asking in case it was something obvious.
                              Why a four-year-old child could understand this report! Run out and find me a four-year-old child, I can't make head or tail of it.

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