Red Jim and the Lady

[Mayerling]

Hi Jeff,

Very interesting. To me, a man being involved with so much hints more of an effective agent provocatour than just an idiot. It reads so much like Carmin Cummings' research into Charles Dunham. On the surface he was just a selfish nut, but Cummings convincingly demonstrates that he was an agent provatour/double agent. In both cases, they seemed to have been skilled at putting themselves in the right place at the right (or seemingly wrong) time.

Sincerely,

Mike

Hi Mike,

I agree with the assessment, but it is odd still about Beecher. The rest of it is to apparently louse up any American - Irish plots that would be aimed at Britain (or to make it hard for the Irish to have any political affect in America on a National level. The Morey Letter would have been uninvolving anything concerning the Irish Americans per se, as it dealt with the immigrants from China, but the Chinese were like American Blacks in that they were rival for the jobs Irish Americans got (if I did not show how harsh feelings were on this subject in the 1880s, in 1879 President Hayes had to face down the threats of San Francisco labor leader Denis Kearney that he would lead a California secession movement if Asian immigrations was not stopped). The business with various Irish leaders in Britain and America like O'Donovan Rossa showed that Red Jim was trying to undue any scheme mentioned to him. This would be especially true during the "Dynamite" period in London in the 1884. And after Phoenix Park and the attempts by Gladstone and Parnell to sell the "Home Rule" idea to the British Government, Parnell was earmarked for particular targeting (first the Pigott forgery, and then the O'Shea divorce).

But Beecher?

The simplest explination is that as an Eagle newspaper reporter, Red Jim just was doing his regular job, but it does look like he was after some main chance here - dealing with blackmailing the Reverend? An interesting thought, but a risky one for Red Jim. He was a foreigner in Brooklyn, and (for all of the damage of the scandal Beecher was a Brooklyn institution. Ferry boats deposited visitors to Brooklyn Heights on Sundays (they were called "Beecher Boats") to hear his famous sermons. He actually espoused many liberal causes, and may have supported the Irish Catholics, but it is not something that I am really aware of. Had Beecher mentioned to his attorneys any blackmail threat from Red Jim, the latter would not have been around in 1888 to be a possible suspect in the Whitechapel case.

I can only state that I have to try to find more details on Red Jim. So I will be following this thread where it leads.

Jeff

[Mayerling]

Hello Jeff. Thanks.

They were not, indeed. Several were hanged.

Do you recall how Mallon got Carey to turn approver?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,

I don't know the details of how Carey was forced to turn approver, but as he was seen giving the signal to the "Invincibles" I'd imagine it was not too difficult for Mallon to pressure Mr. Carey, a city Councilor, to turn approver.

Jeff

[Mayerling]

Hello (again) Jeff.

"The involvement of Red Jim in the Tilton - Beecher adultery scandal was unexpected."

OK. What OTHER adultery scandal did he specifically argue he was not part of?

Cheers.
LC

Hello again Lynn,

Again you got me. Unless Red Jim was used in British or Irish cases. There were two in the 1880s, both of which do have a link that is very annoying.

These are the adultery scandals of the Crawford Divorce Case of 1884 which smashed the career of Sir Charles Dilke, the Liberal Party's great hope for the future as William Gladstone thought Dilke would be his successor as leader of the Liberals. Mrs. Crawford, it is now realized, was a liar (she described seductions by Dilke in non-existant rooms in his home), but the jury believed her, not Dilke. Roy Jenkins pointed out in his biographical study of Sir Charles and the Scandal ("THE RIGHT HONORABLE GENTLEMAN") that the likely culprit in spurring on Mrs. Crawford was one of Dilke's rivals, and he narrowed it down to two possibilities: Archibald Primrose, Lord Roseberry and/or Joseph Chamberlain (this was before Chamberlain led his Unionist followers into the Tory camp for 20 years in 1885 over Home Rule). But Chamberlain (who opposed Home Rule) would play detective against Parnell too, and would help "convince" Captain O'Shea (i.e. bribe him with a high paying, easy government job) to bring adultery charges against Parnell and O'Shea's wife Kitty in 1890.

[I realize that Chamberlain remains a favorite with British political historians with his trade block ideas and his great abilities as Foreign Secretary, but he was also probably the most unscrupulous political figure of his age (an age with Lord Randolph Churchill in it as well, so Chamberlain really had to be a rotter). I do believe he destroyed Dilke. He undermined the Liberal Party and Gladstone. He helped destroy Parnell. He had to bide his time with Lord Salisbury, who never trusted him (one wonders why?). Due to his ideas Cecil Rhodes pushed Dr. Jameson's Raid in 1896 - which was illegal, and then Rhodes blackmailed Chamberlain to somehow dent Jameson's punishment at his trial (which he did). His attempts at an Anglo-German alliance blew up in his face when the Germans kept demanding more from Britain for their cooperation. In 1902 Salisbury gave his post to his nephew Arthur Balfour (much to Chamberlain's chagrin). Chamberlain's withdrawal of support from Balfour in 1905 led to the end of the Tory period of power, and the reemergence of the Liberal Party now under Campbell-Bannermann and Asquith and Lloyd George. Chamberlain planned to replace Balfour, but a stroke in 1906 felled that. Until his death in 1914 Chamberlain was totally ignored. He deserved it in my book.]

I can see Red Jim involved in either of the two British cases, especially Parnell's. Chamberlain may have felt that it would be easy to use such an agent to find out what dirt he could.

Jeff

[lynn cates]

psychology

Hello Jeff. Thanks.

Mallon pretended that Dan Curley was in the next cell, ratting Carey out. Carey became frightened and sang like a bird. The cell was empty.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Hello (again) Jeff. Thanks.

It was Hurlbert/Evelyn.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Davitt

Hello All. Here is a chapter from Michael Davitt's book and concerns "Red Jim."

http://archive.org/stream/falloffeudalismi00daviuoft#page/426/mode/2up/search/xxxv

Not sure whom Mrs. T is, nor yet Featherstone or Davis. Any links appreciated.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

S Y

Hello All. Christy Campbell gives her pseudonym as Mrs. Tyler.

It was supposed that she was a wife of an upper echelon SY chap.

Cheers.
LC

[Simon Wood]

Hi Lynn,



"The lady was of the most polished manners, and her address and conversation were refined and spotless, her diamonds magnificicent, her wealth apprently limitless."

Lah de Dah.

To whom at Scotland Yard might Mrs "Tyler" have been married?

Abberline, Shore, Littlechild, Anderson, Monro, Swanson, Reid, Warren?

Or perhaps someone else entirely?

Regards,

Simon

[lynn cates]

age

Hello Simon. Thanks.

Well, she was supposed to be quite beautiful. So, younger than they? (Not that older ladies . . well, you know what I mean. I am just trying to think the thoughts of others.)

Cheers.
LC

[TradeName]

Anderson? If this is the same Tyler:

SECRET SERVICE MONEY.
HC Deb 26 March 1897 vol 47 cc1486-504

[...]

MR. JAMES O'CONNOR (Wicklow, W.)

said that the Home Secretary need not have taken so much trouble to assure the Committee that he had no acquaintance whatever with the persons Connected with this dynamite conspiracy. No one on the Opposition side of the House supposed for a moment that any Home Secretary ever had a personal acquaintance with the agents who had, as his hon. Friends and himself maintained, been employed by certain permanent officials in the Home Office or Scotland Yard. The right hon. Gentleman had asserted most emphatically that there was a reality in the conspiracy of September last. He admitted that there was a reality in that conspiracy, but with whom did that reality originate? With whom did it begin? The Nationalist Members maintained that it originated with the employees of the Home Office and Scotland Yard. How was it that Mrs. Tyler had never been arrested for the conspiracy which she went to Dublin to found in 1884. The Nationalist Members had in their possession telegrams sent from the Home Office to this woman at the Gresham Hotel in Dublin, and there were in the possession of Members of the House letters written and signed "Robert Anderson, Home Office," in reference to payments for informer's service.

[...]

[lynn cates]

astonished

Hello Trade. Thanks.

Well, if it WERE Sir Robert, I'd be blown away. He and Sir Ed were not exactly friends.

I'm astonished that it was still sticking in the throats of the Irish as late as 1897.

If only they had known about Lord Salisbury and HIS agent provocateur, Gen. Millen, and the dynamite plot of 1887!

Cheers.
LC