If There Were Multiple Killers Wouldn't We Expect to See More Killings?

[Observer]

Whose that Greg? Looks like Red JimMcDermott in drag. And whats that on the red pillow, it looks as though The Ochrana Have supplied him with a Fabrege bomb.

[GregBaron]

Thesis requested...

Whose that Greg? Looks like Red JimMcDermott in drag. And whats that on the red pillow, it looks as though The Ochrana Have supplied him with a Fabrege bomb.

I think you're on to something Observer. Please submit your thesis in the next Ripperologist...


Greg

[lynn cates]

Mrs

Hello Greg. Thanks.

"I personally think she was a cold, calculating Prussian agitator"

Good heavens! That's my wife! (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

vague

Hello Nic. Thanks.

"As deranged as he needed to be unless cutting people up is normal behaviour?"

Indeed. But difficult to form any judgment based on it; too loose.

Cheers.
LC

[Nic1950]

Hi

I'd love to think he was a stand up figure of the community by day and by night a blood thirsty, depraved maniac. Maybe not, but I'd be interested to know how many people who lived locally were mentally ill? I think that would be too tricky to find out?.?
Would it?
Thanks
Nic

[Fisherman]

Hi

I'd love to think he was a stand up figure of the community by day and by night a blood thirsty, depraved maniac. Maybe not, but I'd be interested to know how many people who lived locally were mentally ill? I think that would be too tricky to find out?.?
Would it?
Thanks
Nic

Rob House, in his excellent book on Kosminski, points to a five-fold or so increase in mentally ill people between, if I remember correctly, 1850 and 1890. It demanded the building of many new asylums, some of the biggest in Europe.
Kosminski was admitted to Colney Hatch as number tenthousand, or something like that, and when he reached Leavesden, he was listed as inmate seventhousand-something.

That should give you a general idea. If you can lay your hands on the book, you will get it all in more exact figures.

The best,
Fisherman

[bolo]

Hello Nic, Fisherman, all,

maybe it should also be taken into consideration that there must have been quite a few traumatised immigrants in the East End who had fled from the religious or political pogroms in their home country, that specially goes for Jews and Russians. This could be another reason (next to the daily horrors of industrialisation) as to why the number of mentally ill persons rose dramatically between 1850 and 1890.

Regards,

Boris

[Fisherman]

Hello Nic, Fisherman, all,

maybe it should also be taken into consideration that there must have been quite a few traumatised immigrants in the East End who had fled from the religious or political pogroms in their home country, that specially goes for Jews and Russians. This could be another reason (next to the daily horrors of industrialisation) as to why the number of mentally ill persons rose dramatically between 1850 and 1890.

Regards,

Boris

A good point, Boris - and let´s keep track of the fact too, that London was an immensely fast-growing city. The influx of people was huge.

The best,
Fisherman

[Michael W Richards]

Hello all,

To Caz, I wasnt selling anything other than an unencumbered evidence review as the primary source of our murderers trail. I think Fishermans point about the amount of mentally ill people within greater London at the time is one of the pieces of this thread puzzle.

Best regards

[Nic1950]

Hi all,

I think I added to another thread saying that post Kelly murder, I am of the opinion that and I am sure someone will tell me if they do not agree but I believe JTR died, was incarcerated or left the area or country. Based on that I am keeping my mind open to the remaining suspects!! Does anyone have another opinion why the murders stopped in Whitechapel?
Thanks
Nic

[Michael W Richards]

Hi all,

I think I added to another thread saying that post Kelly murder, I am of the opinion that and I am sure someone will tell me if they do not agree but I believe JTR died, was incarcerated or left the area or country. Based on that I am keeping my mind open to the remaining suspects!! Does anyone have another opinion why the murders stopped in Whitechapel?
Thanks
Nic

Hi Nic,

Dont forget these cases remained open until 1892...and the spring of 89 had a murder that created the same paranoia as Jack did, and was remarkably similar in many respects. There are letters alleging to be from Jack as late as 1896 I believe, in one he mentions the Goulston Street Grafitto pretty specifically..even though only a handful of officers saw the writing before it was erased.

I think the "Ripper" murders stopped after Mary Kelly because her killer didnt need to continue killing. At least not in Whitechapel that Fall. He didnt kill to satisfy his demons...I think he killed so he, or someone he was working for, wouldnt get into trouble. And he was rational enough to attempt to replicate horrific acts as a way to conceal the murder motive within a serial killers murder spree.

I think if the man that killed Mary Ann and Polly wasnt incarcerated or institutionalized, then we would have seen quite a few more like them.

Best regards

[RivkahChaya]

I think he killed so he, or someone he was working for, wouldnt get into trouble. And he was rational enough to attempt to replicate horrific acts as a way to conceal the murder motive within a serial killers murder spree.

I'm not really sure what you mean by that. Are you suggesting that Kelly, and possibly Eddowes, were targeted for specific reasons? What on earth, other than a crazy stalker (which I'm sure prostitutes get from time to time), would cause a person to target Mary Jane Kelly, let alone Eddowes? Eddowes hadn't even been back in Whitechapel that long, had she?

If Kelly was some kind of petty informant, informing, on, say, burglars, or black-marketeers, what makes you think that simply threatening her wouldn't stop her? It's not as though she was getting rich off of it, or it was her entire livelihood.

Besides, even in the case of something like the Murder by Decree scenario, what overkill. If the idea was to make Kelly's murder look like other local murders, then it would look more like them. Or, it would look like Stride's murder, because the hit man might shy away from the abdominal mutilations. Why on earth would someone with a task to accomplish, nothing more or less, take the time to do something that would turn Ed Gein's stomach? Aside from the disgust factor, it adds time, and it runs the risk of something tripping him up-- he cuts himself, or his clothes, he gets himself too gory to make an inconspicuous escape, he gets hot and sweaty, takes his outer clothing off, then leaves something behind. The fact that none of those things seems to have happened doesn't change the fact that they were all at risk with such an overdone escapade.

[caz]

Hi Rivkah,

Don't forget we are meant to be thinking out of the box here. So don't think one crazy horse followed by a copycat horse working to a different agenda; think one crazy horse followed by an even crazier pink and white striped zebra with a highly creative streak working to another zebra's agenda.

Well, why not?

Love,

Caz
X

[Nic1950]

Hi

I'm not on board with the hidden agenda theory just because its seems a lot easier to bump someone off without going to the lengths Jack did. For instance Morrison's theory on James Kelly, that he killed Nichols, Chapman, Stride and Eddowes to get to Kelly. I just don't think there was a personal vendetta, hence the reason for me thinking that when the murders stopped in Whitechapel there was a physical reason behind it, he died, moved or was incarcerated.
Thanks
Nic

[RivkahChaya]

For instance Morrison's theory on James Kelly, that he killed Nichols, Chapman, Stride and Eddowes to get to Kelly. I just don't think there was a personal vendetta, hence the reason for me thinking that when the murders stopped in Whitechapel there was a physical reason behind it, he died, moved or was incarcerated.

James Kelly is my favorite modern suspect (which does not mean I think he did it, it just means I think the case against him is way better than the cases against Gull, Sickert, Maybrick, Prince Eddy, et al.), but I agree that any theory of the crime with the murder of Mary Jane Kelly as the final goal is silly.

I do think it is possible that the Ripper just stopped. I didn't used to think that was possible, until Gary Ridgway was finally arrested for the Green River murders, and it turned out that he had just gotten bored with serial killings, the way other people lose enthusiasm for ordinary hobbies.

I have no evidence whatsoever to back it up, but I would guess that if JTR did simply stop, he was probably middle-aged, and not at an age when men tend to have, umm, "eager" sexual appetites. I think if JTR's enthusiasm for his type of murder tapered off, it would be around the same age that men's sexual appetites normally wind down a little.

I can't think, off-hand, of anyone other than Gary Ridgway-- oh, wait, Dennis Rader, "BTK" committed his murders over a 17-year period, when he was aged 29-46, then stopped. He started writing letters to the police again in 2004, and that's when he was caught, but he did not kill again.

So, if JTR was in his early-mid 40s in 1888, it is possible that he killed Mary Kelly, and stopped.