A Theory -The access to Mary Kelly

[GregBaron]

Fill er up...

He had a longish dark coat on, not an overcoat, and he had a pot of ale in his hand

So who established a "pot" meant a pail and not a mug, and by what source?

A pot is a mug, jug or glass, a pail is a bucket.

Hi Wickerman,

We'd have to retrieve the thread. I believe it was Chris Phillips who pointed us to some interesting links. I recall it as being a bucket or pail.

Perhaps someone can find it for us...


Greg

[Wickerman]

He had a longish dark coat on, not an overcoat, and he had a pot of ale in his hand

So who established a "pot" meant a pail and not a mug, and by what source?

A pot is a mug, jug or glass, a pail is a bucket.

[GregBaron]

Only for a second...

[/I]302]Hello Greg.

"Strangle first, retrieve knife, slice..."

When were the defensive wounds administered? Were they after being strangled?

Cheers.
LC

Perhaps Lynn, as I said, perhaps she came to just in time for a gasp before the finale. Maybe even when he went to his coat to retrieve his knife as suggested...


Greg

[lynn cates]

defensive wounds

Hello Greg.

"Strangle first, retrieve knife, slice..."

When were the defensive wounds administered? Were they after being strangled?

Cheers.
LC

[GregBaron]

Strangers in the Night...

I thought Blotchy carried a mug?

We've been through this one before you all, our boy Blotchy carried what they called a pail. It was common at the time, pretty close to what Bridewell posted...

All the scenarios you guys have run through make me believe more than ever it was a stranger in the night. If it wasn't, he probably did a pre-strike throttle as on C1 and C2. One needs both hands for such a scenario so it's unlikely one contained a knife. Strangle first, retrieve knife, slice...

If the killer came out the poor woman with knife aloft, I expect we would see much greater evidence of a struggle and the hearing of blood curdling shrieks. As we have it, she may have just regained consciousness briefly in time to get a thumb raised before the knife did its work...

A leisurely chit-chat with a client makes the logistics more difficult methinks...



Greg

[lynn cates]

furtive movement

Hello CD. Thanks.

To make it as easy as possible--not to say realistic--why not drop the money altogether? Just add a furtive movement.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

I thought Blotchy carried a mug?

[Wickerman]

I would think it much more likely that it was money up front. .

That's pretty much the only way they do it, no credit, no trust, you pays your money then takes your fun.

[Bridewell]

Hiding The Knife

But then it (the knife) would need to fit into the coat.

Isn't there one place we haven't considered where Blotchy could have hidden a knife?

[Bridewell]

No Noise

For Bridewell, the main problem with your backing the notion that "oh-murder" signified the attack commencement is that there is no sound at all following that cry out,

Hi Michael,

I don't back that notion. I simply accept it as a possibility.

Why should we expect another sound? Nothing at all was heard from Nichols by Mrs Green & Mrs Purkis who lived nearby. Cadosch heard nothing after the woman's voice saying 'No' and he was both wide awake and separated from the scene only by a wooden fence. Nothing was heard from Stride after she called out to Israel Schwartz and nothing was heard from Eddowes by City P.c. Richard Pearce who lived at 3, Mitre Square. No further noise from Kelly is unremarkable surely in the circumstances?

[c.d.]

Hello Lynn,

I'm not getting why this has to be so involved and complex a process as you make it out to be.

Mary's room is pretty damn small so I have no problem with her sitting on the bed as they talk. Again, I think that it would have been money up front. Now if her killer had placed his coat (with the knife under it) on the bed or the table (if big enough) he simply makes a pretense of reaching for the money but instead grabs the knife. This seems natural enough to me.

c.d.

[lynn cates]

natural

Hello CD. Thanks. So "MJK" is undressed and just hopped into bed. OK. So now he offers to pay. Would she not have him "leave it on the table"? Or is it more along the lines of, "Right. I'll just jump up and put it in a safe place. Don't go away, I'll be right back."

I need a natural sequence.

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hello CD. Thanks.

" As he takes off the coat, he does a quick sleight of hand and takes the knife as well and conceals it under the coat which he puts on the bed or chair. "Here, let me pay you" as he reaches for his coat and the knife."

OK. So I presume they have done their thing (even without traces--but I waive that), and now she is up, ready to go out again as he pays. But does she not need to be on the bed to be killed as per forensic evidence?

On the other hand, do you think she would remain in bed, have him pay whilst she lies there, with a, "And be sure to pull the door closed, Ducky"?

Cheers.
LC

I would think it much more likely that it was money up front. Remember in my scenario it is her killer who makes the suggestion to pay so he can reach for his knife. And yes, I have Mary on the bed at this time.

c.d.

[lynn cates]

Mary

Hello Jon. Thanks.

Mary: "Just come from collecting then? Well, be off with you, Come back when you are done and without your friends."

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Bag? And so "MJK" never once asks, "What's in the bag Ducky?"

Stranger:
"In this bag?, well I'm an arachnophile my dear, I collect spiders, would you like to see some?'

Mary:
"oh, noooo, keep it closed while you're in here!"

".... it would also help immensely if we knew her TOD."

Ah, the $64,000 question..