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  • #76
    Originally posted by rjpalmer View Post

    My sense is that it might run deeper than that. Colin Ireland's desire to commit his murders 'elsewhere' could have a psychological component unrelated to mere habit or modus operandi.

    Some depraved murderers seemingly have no problem with burying their victims under the kitchen floorboards. They have given up any pretense of normality or self-respect. They are 'all in.'

    By contrast, maybe in Ireland's mind the 'distance' he placed between his 'normal' life and his crimes was a type of compartmentalization. He fooled himself into believing that if he killed people in a faraway place it wasn't really 'him' doing it. He allows himself to be 'Hyde' on these rare occasions, but insists on not polluting his own 'Jekyll' environs.

    There's a whole advertising campaign based on this idea. 'What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas.' As long as you commit your evil deeds is Sin City, you can still return home with your pretense of respectability intact.

    Me agreeing with you is becoming a habit. I think I have entered the twilight zone.

    Every Serial killer has his/her own nuances. Not all lust killers will live with body parts of their victims. Not all murderers with Necromutilomania tendencies will "enjoy" the dead there and then. I believe Jack took the various body parts as a "takeaway" for his gratification needs. Alone with these organs he could do whatever he pleased. Therefore, he needed a place of privacy and safety to do so. He is getting a multi-sensory experience. The Jekyl and Hyde analogy is a good one. Back to work on Monday as if nothing ever happened. Distance from his "main life" would give him that space to compartmentalise.

    After all, engaging with prosititution by its very nature offers that ability to compartmentalise.
    "When the legend becomes fact... print the legend"
    - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)

    Comment


    • #77
      Many years ago I was on vacation with my brother in another part of the country. He was given the keys to the family car and was driving like a complete lunatic--swerving all over, passing on blind corners, driving 30 miles an hour over the speed limit, etc.

      I protested, and he said "Relax! statistically, automobile accidents happen within 10 miles from home; we're a thousand miles from home!"

      His statement was true, of course, but surely he was missing the point?

      I think of geographical profilers as insurance executives. There is a mangled car on the side of the highway, and they are predicting it will be a driver from within a ten mile radius, because statistically that fills the bill. Year in, year out, most of our driving is done close to home.

      That's fine, but I worry about the lunatics who think like my brother.




      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by erobitha View Post

        Me agreeing with you is becoming a habit. I think I have entered the twilight zone.

        Every Serial killer has his/her own nuances. Not all lust killers will live with body parts of their victims. Not all murderers with Necromutilomania tendencies will "enjoy" the dead there and then. I believe Jack took the various body parts as a "takeaway" for his gratification needs. Alone with these organs he could do whatever he pleased. Therefore, he needed a place of privacy and safety to do so. He is getting a multi-sensory experience. The Jekyl and Hyde analogy is a good one. Back to work on Monday as if nothing ever happened. Distance from his "main life" would give him that space to compartmentalise.

        After all, engaging with prosititution by its very nature offers that ability to compartmentalise.
        hi ero!

        Me agreeing with you is becoming a habit. I think I have entered the twilight zone.
        thats because you both think the ripper was a non local ; )
        "Is all that we see or seem
        but a dream within a dream?"

        -Edgar Allan Poe


        "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
        quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

        -Frederick G. Abberline

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by rjpalmer View Post
          Many years ago I was on vacation with my brother in another part of the country. He was given the keys to the family car and was driving like a complete lunatic--swerving all over, passing on blind corners, driving 30 miles an hour over the speed limit, etc.

          I protested, and he said "Relax! statistically, automobile accidents happen within 10 miles from home; we're a thousand miles from home!"

          His statement was true, of course, but surely he was missing the point?

          I think of geographical profilers as insurance executives. There is a mangled car on the side of the highway, and they are predicting it will be a driver from within a ten mile radius, because statistically that fills the bill. Year in, year out, most of our driving is done close to home.

          That's fine, but I worry about the lunatics who think like my brother.



          haha. that story is like the one of the guy waiting in line for his turn in the guillotine. the two prisoners in front of him are let off because the blade jams, and when its his turn he loudly exclaims-Im not getting in that thing till you get it fixed! lol
          "Is all that we see or seem
          but a dream within a dream?"

          -Edgar Allan Poe


          "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
          quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

          -Frederick G. Abberline

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by rjpalmer View Post
            Many years ago I was on vacation with my brother in another part of the country. He was given the keys to the family car and was driving like a complete lunatic--swerving all over, passing on blind corners, driving 30 miles an hour over the speed limit, etc.

            I protested, and he said "Relax! statistically, automobile accidents happen within 10 miles from home; we're a thousand miles from home!"

            His statement was true, of course, but surely he was missing the point?

            I think of geographical profilers as insurance executives. There is a mangled car on the side of the highway, and they are predicting it will be a driver from within a ten mile radius, because statistically that fills the bill. Year in, year out, most of our driving is done close to home.

            That's fine, but I worry about the lunatics who think like my brother.
            Hi rjpalmer,

            Actually, that's a good analogy. And it's correct, in a way. If most accidents happen within 10 miles of home, then yes, given you spot a random accident the odds are the driver is within 10 miles of home. Your brother, however, is misunderstanding that statistic and presuming there's a causal relationship - that being within 10 miles of home somehow makes driving more dangerous. Rather, as you point out, both are related to the fact more driving is done close to home. So if you spot a random accident, odds are the driver is close to home (in fact, if you spot a driver, accident or not, the odds are they are close to home). Effectively, that's the idea under geographical profiling, an offender commits crimes in areas they spends more time in, making those the areas they are familiar with, which tend to be close to their anchor points (home, work, etc), because those activities also allow them to become familiar with the area and learn where potential targets are located (and become familiar with the activities in those areas, how busy is it, etc). It's not a causal thing, and there are exceptions.

            But the idea is to find those areas where it appears the offender is spending more of their time, just like in the driving/accident analogy you've given. Or, like checking out a victim's spouse, family members, and other close contacts, because statistically speaking, those are the most common relationships between a victim and the offender in violent crimes.

            That doesn't mean a given case has to be one of the more common ones. Nor is implying that the area causes the crime. It's just a fact that offenses tend to be committed close to those anchor points. This is why these outputs are information to be considered, but not blindly followed.

            - Jeff

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by erobitha View Post

              Me agreeing with you is becoming a habit. I think I have entered the twilight zone.

              Every Serial killer has his/her own nuances. Not all lust killers will live with body parts of their victims. Not all murderers with Necromutilomania tendencies will "enjoy" the dead there and then. I believe Jack took the various body parts as a "takeaway" for his gratification needs. Alone with these organs he could do whatever he pleased. Therefore, he needed a place of privacy and safety to do so. He is getting a multi-sensory experience. The Jekyl and Hyde analogy is a good one. Back to work on Monday as if nothing ever happened. Distance from his "main life" would give him that space to compartmentalise.

              After all, engaging with prosititution by its very nature offers that ability to compartmentalise.
              Yes, I too thought it a bit weird that I found myself agreeing with RJ Palmer on this one.

              Your last sentence sums up precisely my own thoughts, erobitha.

              I can't pretend to know the habits of regular users of prostitutes, including kerb crawlers, but I would think the majority don't go out of their way to advertise their predilections, and prefer to keep this part of their lives completely separate from home and the workplace, and secret from their family and friends. Easier to do for a loner, or someone who doesn't have to explain his every move to anyone. But for anyone else, geography can be a useful way to section off their less acceptable social activities. The seedier, anonymous parts of town lend themselves perfectly to anyone with a double life to maintain, and a tiny, tiny percentage will have much darker issues and desires, which they can experiment with in the same way, and often in the same places used by so many others for their jollies.

              Love,

              Caz
              X
              "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


              Comment


              • #82
                Just to add...

                A man is not more likely to become a prostitute killer if he is surrounded by prostitutes where he happens to live or work. Just as vicars aren't tempted to fiddle with choirboys because they are there.

                People with the inclination to do such harm will gravitate towards a location, lifestyle or career, which enables them to fill their boots. If their preferred prey is not already on their doorstep, they will travel or even make it their life's work to get where the action is.

                I wonder how much we can ever really put it down to coincidence when a serial offender is found living and working right in among his victims of choice. Dr Harold Shipman didn't suddenly wake up one morning, realising he was in the very best position to bump off the patients in his care with gay abandon.

                Was JtR a dirt poor local man, whose only luck in life was to be stuck in a place that was rich with vulnerable, equally poor women? If he had the means to live anywhere more salubrious [and serial killers must be among the more resourceful members of society, who will lie, cheat, beg, steal or borrow for their basic creature comforts], I can't see him choosing to live there just because of the easy pickings. So that's why I feel this may be a special case, where it could actually be more likely that the killer was able to live well apart from his victims of choice and the sheer squalor of their existence, and only dipped into the honey pot when his violent urges got the better of him.

                Love,

                Caz
                X
                Last edited by caz; 04-26-2021, 04:06 PM.
                "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by caz View Post
                  Just to add...

                  A man is not more likely to become a prostitute killer if he is surrounded by prostitutes where he happens to live or work. Just as vicars aren't tempted to fiddle with choirboys because they are there.

                  People with the inclination to do such harm will gravitate towards a location, lifestyle or career, which enables them to fill their boots. If their preferred prey is not already on their doorstep, they will travel or even make it their life's work to get where the action is.

                  I wonder how much we can ever really put it down to coincidence when a serial offender is found living and working right in among his victims of choice. Dr Harold Shipman didn't suddenly wake up one morning, realising he was in the very best position to bump off the patients in his care with gay abandon.

                  Was JtR a dirt poor local man, whose only luck in life was to be stuck in a place that was rich with vulnerable, equally poor women? If he had the means to live anywhere more salubrious [and serial killers must be among the more resourceful members of society, who will lie, cheat, beg, steal or borrow for their basic creature comforts], I can't see him choosing to live there just because of the easy pickings. So that's why I feel this may be a special case, where it could actually be more likely that the killer was able to live well apart from his victims of choice and the sheer squalor of their existence, and only dipped into the honey pot when his violent urges got the better of him.

                  Love,

                  Caz
                  X
                  Couldn't agree more with this.
                  "When the legend becomes fact... print the legend"
                  - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)

                  Comment

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