A new front in the history wars? A new article on 'the five'

[Observer]

Do you spend much time doing original research?

Why do you ask?

[MrBarnett]

Is there that much "stick"? If so, so what? Does it annoy you? It doesn't annoy me, why should it, In my opinion, contributing to this type of forum is nothing more than a pastime.

The problem is that certain posters take themselves too seriously, particularly those with a suspect in mind. Some eat, sleep, and breath this forum. I'm surprised they get any time to do anything else.

I'm a casual member of three serial killer forums two JTR, and one Zodiac Killer, they are very similar in intensity.

Of course, the conspiracy theorists don't help, neither do the "what if", "perhaps", "surely not" merchants.

Don't get me wrong, I've taken part in heated argument, but as soon as I've signed out, that's it, I'm not up half the night thinking it over in my mind. I'm sure there are posters who display this type of behavior.

In short, my advice to any would be contributor to this type of forum is, don't take the subject too seriously, we're all hobbyists, it's not life or death, treat it as a pastime.

Do you spend much time doing original research?

[Observer]

Here is a link to the above article by Paul Bleakley

Why is it that we 'amateur' enthusiasts come in for so much stick?

Is there that much "stick"? If so, so what? Does it annoy you? It doesn't annoy me, why should it. In my opinion, contributing to this type of forum is nothing more than a pastime.

The problem is that certain posters take themselves too seriously, particularly those with a suspect in mind. Some eat, sleep, and breath this forum. I'm surprised they get any time to do anything else.

I'm a casual member of three serial killer forums two JTR, and one Zodiac Killer, they are very similar in intensity.

Of course, the conspiracy theorists don't help, neither do the "what if", "perhaps", "surely not" merchants.

Don't get me wrong, I've taken part in heated argument, but as soon as I've signed out, that's it, I'm not up half the night thinking it over in my mind. I'm sure there are posters who display this type of behavior.

In short, my advice to any would be contributor to this type of forum is, don't take the subject too seriously, we're all hobbyists, it's not life or death, treat it as a pastime.

[MrBarnett]

In 2008, Elizabeth Stride and Jack the Ripper: The Life and Death of the Reputed Third Victim by Dave Yost was published. Hallie Rubenhold includes it in her bibliography.

I haven’t read it; I don’t know how good it is, but it’s 228 pages on the subject of Liz Stride which compares well with Hallie’s ‘magisterial’ 54 pages on the same subject.

This is just one example. Hundreds of thousands of words must have been written about the victims’ lives in books, articles and online posts before HR began to take an interest in them.

[MrBarnett]

Compare her statement:

“Apart from a small booklet containing fifty-seven pages of text, nothing else on the subject existed...”

to her extensive bibliography, which contains works by numerous Casebook and JTRForums members.

That quote came from her Waterstones blog which I attempted to counter, but found that every other comment I made was censored by Waterstones.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Here is a link to the above article by Paul Bleakley

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/ful...48895821992460

Why is it that we 'amateur' enthusiasts come in for so much stick? It seems like academics and the like treat us with utter contempt sometimes and are happy to make all sorts of assumptions, despite the fact that there are people on here and in other places that know far more about this topic than anyone else? The mind boggles.

Not really sure why I have posted this (just annoyed I suppose) as I don't think it is particularly well written or actually answers the question he sets for himself all that well, if at all. But then what would i know?

I think that you’re right to be more than annoyed Tristan because this isn’t a history ‘war’ it’s a ‘massacre.’ And it’s an ongoing massacre because the field of ‘battle’ isn’t an open or an honest one. The voices of Rubenhold, Bleakley and many others are the only voices that are being heard by the general public. Ripperology lies silent which implies an embarrassed acceptance that we have been caught out engaging in the kind of bias that we are being accused of. Rubenhold et al speak to the world and we talk amongst ourselves on forums that the general public are unlikely ever to visit. Apparently (and I don’t use social media) Rubenhold has no truck with dissenting voices and sadly she has been ‘martyred’ by some unpleasant comments on these platforms which are now considered the true voices of ripperology. Some think that we shouldn’t respond and that this will go away but I think that it might be too late for that. Labels that can be attached in an instant can take a lifetime to remove; if they ever are.

It’s interesting that Bleakley uses ‘research’ when writing about ripperologists research. Apparently only a qualified Historian can be trusted to do real research? It’s a relentless drip of denigration which we are taking lying down. And what’s really annoying is that much of what is written is easily refutable. For example, is it a realistic proposition that on the 8th September the ripper walked along Hanbury Street trying doors until he finds one open. He then walks through a passageway on the off chance that the back door was unlocked and bingo! What an incredible stroke of luck...a sleeping woman. Really?

So yes, I think you’re right to be annoyed Tristan. We’ve been labelled and demonised by people with an agenda taking the dishonest approach that we are accused of employing. That’s the way it now is. We’ve waived the white flag.

You should post that on JTRForums btw Tristan.

[Losmandris]

Here is a link to the above article by Paul Bleakley

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1748895821992460

Why is it that we 'amateur' enthusiasts come in for so much stick? It seems like academics and the like treat us with utter contempt sometimes and are happy to make all sorts of assumptions, despite the fact that there are people on here and in other places that know far more about this topic than anyone else? The mind boggles.

Not really sure why I have posted this (just annoyed I suppose) as I don't think it is particularly well written or actually answers the question he sets for himself all that well, if at all. But then what would i know?