Other attacks : man wearing deerstalker hat

[Craig H]

I've always been intrigued by the more credible witness descriptions (Elizabeth Long, Joseph Lawende, PC William Smith, William Marshall) who said the man wore a deerstalker hat or a peak hat.

I would have thought a deerstalker was unusual headwear in the East End, and suggests he may have previously lived in rural areas.

It's possible JTR may have attacked or killed women either before, or after, the Canonical Five.

Can anyone find any cases of a murder or attack anywhere in England where the attacker wore a deerstalker ? Any thoughts ?

Craig

[Azarna]

There was one quite recently.. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-30807245

A lad in 2015, who was caught because of blood found on his deerstalker hat.

[Wickerman]

I've always been intrigued by the more credible witness descriptions (Elizabeth Long, Joseph Lawende, PC William Smith, William Marshall) who said the man wore a deerstalker hat or a peak hat.

I would have thought a deerstalker was unusual headwear in the East End, and suggests he may have previously lived in rural areas.

It's possible JTR may have attacked or killed women either before, or after, the Canonical Five.

Can anyone find any cases of a murder or attack anywhere in England where the attacker wore a deerstalker ? Any thoughts ?

Craig

PC Smith's original statement to police described the hat as a hard felt hat, why this changed to a soft cloth Deerstalker in his inquest testimony is an unanswered question.

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

I've always been intrigued by the more credible witness descriptions (Elizabeth Long, Joseph Lawende, PC William Smith, William Marshall) who said the man wore a deerstalker hat or a peak hat.

I would have thought a deerstalker was unusual headwear in the East End, and suggests he may have previously lived in rural areas.

It's possible JTR may have attacked or killed women either before, or after, the Canonical Five.

Can anyone find any cases of a murder or attack anywhere in England where the attacker wore a deerstalker ? Any thoughts ?

Craig

I can see your line of thinking, are there any apparently unrelated attacks where a Deerstalker hat was part of the description?

It's worth a browse of the archives, it might not shed any light on the case, but who knows?

The vague and varied clothing descriptions given by witnesses at the time are not the kind of thing you'd want to go to the gallows for, and as Jon points out, the descriptions aren't always consistent. With the notable exception of the flamboyant Astrakhan Man.

I'd imagine most Deerstalker wearing attacks started along the lines of "get 'orf moi laand!", so it's appearance in the East End does stand out. But, what your looking for is an unsolved attack, with a reliable witness description, that's accurate in its detail of said hat, preferably in urban London. Maybe. It's a more realistic line of enquiry than scouring the records for average height men, with some variety of facial hair, dark / brown clothes and a hat of some sort. Essentially, the entire male population of the East End.

Of course, that's if it was a Deerstalker Hat...

[Craig H]

Hi Al,

Yes, same idea.

The deerstalker seems out of place.

I think it’s correct he wore one.

Lawende had a good look at the man with Eddowes a short while before she died and said the man wore a deerstalker. Elizabeth Long saw the man with Chapman just before she died and also said he wore a deerstalker. PC Smith described the man with Stride just before she died as wearing a deerstalker.

So I think the consistent message is there.

I don’t know much about what the typical man wore in East End in the middle of the night, but would have thought a deerstalker was unusual.

This suggests he saw himself as a “hunter

[Craig H]

So continuing with Al’s line .... if JTR wore a deerstalker as part of his modus operandi, did he do the same for other attacks either before or after the canonical 5 ?

it’s likely he did something else before or after.

what are archives worth searching ?

[DJA]

Meh,seems Funny Hat Days set him off.

[Wickerman]

Lawende had a good look at the man with Eddowes a short while before she died and said the man wore a deerstalker.

No, I'm sorry, he didn't.
Lawende described just a peaked cap.
"- He had on a cloth cap with a peak of the same."

Elizabeth Long saw the man with Chapman just before she died and also said he wore a deerstalker.

Yes, this is true, but the age she gave was much older.

PC Smith described the man with Stride just before she died as wearing a deerstalker.

Well, like I said. His first published description was a hard felt hat....

"- Aged about 28, and in height 5ft. 8in. or thereabouts; complexion dark, and wearing a black diagonal coat and hard felt hat, collar and tie. He was of respectable appearance, and was carrying a newspaper parcel."
Star, 1 Oct. 1888.

The above was published 5 days before Smith gave evidence at the inquest.

Later, on 12th Nov. Scotland Yard republished the same description along with two others of the three suspects seen that night.

"At 12.35 a.m., 30th September, with Elizabeth Stride, found murdered at one a.m., same date, in Berner-street - A man, aged 28, height 5ft 8in, complexion dark, small dark moustache; dress, black diagonal coat, hard felt hat, collar and tie; respectable appearance; carried a parcel wrapped up in a newspaper."

It doesn't look like the police were looking for a man wearing a deerstalker, the mystery remains as to why PC Smith changed his description at the inquest.

[Craig H]

Jon,

Yes, my mistake, you're right - Lawende said man work a "peaked cap" not a "deerstalker" as I wrote.

Still, two credible witnesses (Long and PC Smith) said the man work a deerstalker.

You noted how PC Smith changed his description from the man wore a "hard felt hat" :
"- Aged about 28, and in height 5ft. 8in. or thereabouts; complexion dark, and wearing a black diagonal coat and hard felt hat, collar and tie. He was of respectable appearance, and was carrying a newspaper parcel."
Star, 1 Oct. 1888.

.. to saying it was a deerstalker at the enquiry.

Is it possible The Star typed it incorrectly ?

I would think his testimony in person would be more accurate as it was first hand.

Craig

[Joshua Rogan]

It's not certain that PC Smith changed his description. Inquest coverage from 6 October has him using both variants to describe the man's hat.

Daily News
He had a hard felt hat on

Daily Telegraph
His hat? - He wore a dark felt deerstalker's hat.

Morning Advertiser
He wore a hard felt dark hat

Times
He had on a hard felt deerstalker hat of dark colour

[Wickerman]

It's not certain that PC Smith changed his description. Inquest coverage from 6 October has him using both variants to describe the man's hat.

Daily News
He had a hard felt hat on

Daily Telegraph
His hat? - He wore a dark felt deerstalker's hat.

Morning Advertiser
He wore a hard felt dark hat

Times
He had on a hard felt deerstalker hat of dark colour

When we look at all the press versions it is hard to imagine he didn't use the word 'deerstalker', as the alternate is to suggest that the Times, Telegraph, Star, People, etc. just copied each other rather than sent their own reporters to the inquest.
So, we are (I think) required to accept he used that word, as opposed to thinking it was an error by one reporter, clearly it was not.

So why?

The answer could be that it was suggested to him after he gave his initial statement in his report.
He must have wrote "hard felt hat" in his report, which is why it is captured in the official police description. But, if another officer had asked him to describe that hat, and he said the top was round, and there appeared to be a small peak fore & aft, which sounds this:

A deerstalker.

but what he meant was this:

or this:

A hard felt hat.
(I'm not promoting Druitt, it's just the only side view I have of that hat)

A domed hard felt hat, with a slight peak fore & aft, seen in profile at night, could be confused with a deerstalker?

There must be an answer, and this is about the best I can come up with on the evidence we have.

[Craig H]

Hi Jon,

Thanks for this. Good to see the images and how they could be confused. This could be right.

The other option is PC Smith first said it was a hard felt hat as this was the more common headwear. I’m assuming not many people wore a deerstalker in the East End. The most obvious explanation was a hard felt hat.

However, as he thought more about what he saw, he realised it was actually a deerstalker. This would be unusual to see in the area.

As you say, he must have used the phrase “deerstalker” as it’s in his testimony and several newspapers quoted it.

I think this is the other explanation for the changed description

Craig

[Joshua Rogan]

My point was that Smith didn't change from his initial description of it as a hard felt hat, he just seems to have added at the inquest that it was a deerstalker., whilst maintaining that it was a hard felt hat.

[Wickerman]

My point was that Smith didn't change from his initial description of it as a hard felt hat, he just seems to have added at the inquest that it was a deerstalker., whilst maintaining that it was a hard felt hat.

Yes, I think we're both meaning the same thing. I should have said "added" instead of "changed", though the end result was to change the type of hat as the hard felt hat & the deerstalker are totally different hats. So by adding an erroneous detail he effectively changed the hat.

[Wickerman]

Hi Jon,

Thanks for this. Good to see the images and how they could be confused. This could be right.

The other option is PC Smith first said it was a hard felt hat as this was the more common headwear. I’m assuming not many people wore a deerstalker in the East End. The most obvious explanation was a hard felt hat.

I'm inclined to think it was his mistake because the PC Smith suspect in other respects is similar enough, except the newspaper parcel, to the man Stride was seen with at the Bricklayer's Arms around 11:00 PM, where witnesses Best & Gardiner described her with a man:

The man was about 5ft. 5in. in height. He was well dressed in a black morning suit with a morning coat. He had rather weak eyes. I mean he had sore eyes without any eyelashes. I should know the man again amongst a hundred. He had a thick black moustache and no beard. He wore a black billycock hat, rather tall, and had on a collar. I don't know the colour of his tie. I said to the woman, "that's Leather Apron getting round you." The man was no foreigner; he was an Englishman right enough.

It's common for theorists to think this was a different man, I'm not so sure because even today the police get differing descriptions from various witnesses of the same suspect. People don't always notice the same details or describe them the same way.