Suggestion on height or rifle

[Craig H]

Unusual request ..

I’m trying to work out the height of the sitting man in the attached photo to compare to JTR witness descriptions.

He was British army. The Assistants could be in Morocco or Africa.

Any suggestions? I don't have any baseline of typical heights in that era

Alternatively, does anyone know what type of rifle that is? The length of the rifle could help estimate height.

All the best
Craig

[DJA]

Not sure on the rifles.

Don't particularly look like Martini-Henrys (49") or Snider-Enfields (49.25"),however reckon that's the approximate number you seek.

[DJA]

Lee-Metfords were 49.5".

I'd go for 49".

[Craig H]

Thanks Dave.

Have you picked a winner for Melbourne Cup ???

This must be the first year I've got no idea which horses are racing. Seems strange that it's proceeding.

I understand the Martini-Henry was released 1871 and was one of the main rifle in 1880's, however the photo's I found on Martini-Henry (and the Snider-Enfield and Lee-Metford" look different to the uploaded photo.

If the rifle in the photo is 49", and you extrapolate it, the man standing would be 6 ft ??

Any idea how to work out height of man sitting ??

C

[DJA]

My pick will prolly run last.Real roughy that performed poorly last year.

Blow your photo up on your PC.
Grab a ruler or cheap Vernier/micrometer.
Pro rata the rifle to the guy on the right.
Measure sitting soldiers upper right leg.That's the left one in the photo.
Cut off ~ half the helmet.
Reckon all three will be pretty much the same height.Your soldier being a bit less tall.

Some of those three makes of rifles were still being used in Afghanistan quite recently.

[Craig H]

Thanks for this. Can I check if I've done this correctly ?

I blew up the photo and printed it.

Each of the rifles was 85 mm on page = 49 inches so 1 mm = 0.57 inches.

Man on the left was 145 mn on page (top of head to foot) @ 0.57 inches / mm = 82.5 inches = 6 foot 10 inches.
Man on right ; same process, 140 mm = 80 inches = 6 foot 8 inches.
Sitting man = 60 mm (head to waist) + 30 mm (thigh - waist to knee) + 40 mm (knee to foot) = 130 mm = 74 inches = 6 foot 2 inches.

The two standing men height seems too tall.

Could it be that the rifles aren't 49 inches ? Wikipedia says Martini-Henry and Snider-Enfield both are 49 inches in length.
Could this be a different rifle which is not as long ? In which case, all of their heights would be smaller.

The photo was taken in 1892. The man on our left is Hamadi bin Malum, and on our right is Massoudi. The photo with Moloney sitting was taken in Zanzibar in 1892.

I'll see if I can find any record of the height of any of these men elsewhere. Monloney was described as "thick set"

[DJA]

That's Dr Joseph Moloney,medical officer to the Stairs Expedition.
The black armband was due to Captain Stairs death.

As suspected,they are not the rifles named

Seem to be Fusil Gras which were of varying length.
The shortest being 39.2" and longest 52". 46.3" for the cavalry edition.

[DJA]

Ah!

Trinity College,Dublin and St Thomas's Hospital,London.

Like your thinking.

Here's a Gras bayonet for the heck of it.

[Craig H]

Yes, I’ve come back to Joseph Moloney again.

I started a thread about a year ago ( https://forum.casebook.org/forum/rip...joseph-moloney ) outlining what I thought were the “facts” about JTR (age, height, surgical / medical skills, had good personal skills, deer hunter hat, etc) and started to identify people who could fit that profile.

I found some doctors like Benjamin Neale and Joseph Moloney.

I can’t link Moloney to murders but think he has the type of profile of JTR.

I thought it would be good to determine Moloney’s height from this picture.

What made you think Fusil Gras ? It looks a fit.

Would this be a photo of the 39”, 46” or 52” one ?

All the best

Craig

[DJA]

Here's a Westley Richard's carbine.

Similar stock.


Dr Moloney would be worthy of a film in his own right.

Wow.

[Craig H]

I read Joseph Moloney's book "With Captain Stairs to Katanga" which describes his Africa expedition, and some of his early life, and it reads like a "Boys own adventure".
He had an amazing life.

There are some things I outlined in the thread which I think fit the profile.

One of the details I don't think gets enough coverage is the witness descriptions of JTR wearing a deer stalker hat. It's in several witnesses. Really seems strange.

It makes me think JTR had hunting experience (also the way he drained bodies of blood) and he was hunting his victims.

If we found out the killer caught syphillis from a prostitute and the killings were mad revenge, I wouldn't be surprised

[Craig H]

This PDF might be easier to view the rifles.

[Craig H]

Hi again

I’ve been looking more closely at the photo. They seem to be different rifles.

The one on our right has more of a rectangular handle.

The one of our left seems to have a long thin barrel, and a longer more curved handle.

[DJA]

52". Meh, I just type stuff in and press "enter".

Good research Craig.

Gotta get an ad in here

Sutton's wife hailed from Dublin. A failure to communicate might have colored at least one of the letters.

[DJA]

Hi again

I’ve been looking more closely at the photo. They seem to be different rifles.

The one on our right has more of a rectangular handle.

The one of our left seems to have a long thin barrel, and a longer more curved handle.

Yep. Similar length though. The one on the right is best. Checkout the stock.

Working from a 208KB copy of the guys,blown up on a 120" 1080p screen.