Examp of FOI request for Special Branch information

[Phil Carter]

Hello all,

I came across this and thought it might be a good idea to post.
It is an example, simplified, of how the cogs in the wheel rotate regarding Special Branch material. Those wanting to use the FOI Act to access files may, in the first instance, meet the following responses.

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/list_of_special_branch_files_on

As said, this example is one at it's very simplest. All requests have to be as specific as possible yet not too specific. The problem is that nobody outside the keepers of the archives, and sometimes not even they themselves, know exactly what is in existance. There is no known list, as far as I am aware, of precisely what is kept in storage.

For your interest only.

best wishes

Phil

[lynn cates]

archives

Hello Phil. Interesting case. Having recently dealt with two archives--one US, one UK--I can easily recognise the pattern here.

I suppose one is expected to succumb to frustration before gaining the desired material, and withdraw the request.

Oh, well.

Cheers.
LC

[Phil Carter]

Hello Lynn,

Thanks for the reply..

How's this for a quote...?

"The current keepers of the Special Branch's archives, which could shed light on the history of police behavior toward the radicals of the time [the late 19th century], keep access to the relevant records 'tenaciously guarded' even now."
-Brian Doherty, The First War on Terror, Reason magazine.


best wishes

Phil

[Phil H]

The attachment is a perfectly standard pro-forma letter from a Government department. The exclusions/exemptions from release are all laid down in the Act.

If you ask a too general question it won't get answered, normally they'll ask you to narrow your request down. If its too narrow, it may not throw anything up in a search (similarly if wrong terms are used). I was responsible for this stuff in my agency all the time before I retired.

Personnal data, security issues etc will not be released.

Officials, I can assure you, work very hard to try to be helpful to requesters of information. And there are strict tests to be applied which work in favour of the requester. Exemptions have to be signed off at senior - head of division -level, and beyond that can in some cases need to be endorsed by Ministers.

If anyone needs help in trying to put together a request, I'd be glad to advise. Equally if anyone has specific questions, I'd be happy to assist.

Phil H

[lynn cates]

question

Hello Phil and Phil. How's this for a specific question, "Do you have information regarding HM government's secret resettlement program? In particular, what name did Joseph Hanlon eventually go by?"

Cheers.
LC

[Phil H]

How's this for a specific question, "Do you have information regarding HM government's secret resettlement program? In particular, what name did Joseph Hanlon eventually go by?"

In my view this is both too vague and too specific/persoanl data related.

How about for the first question: "I am interested in any surviving information on HM government's secret resettlement programme for [insert kind of people] in the years 18XX- 18YY. can you please inform me whether any papers are still held, and if possible provide me with copies. Should this request be too wide or onerous i would be happy to provide more specific research criteria."

Second:

I believe that officials might be concerned about requests relating to a specific individual - this could be perceived as potentially putting his descendents at risk - as release of the information might give clear clues to their identity.

How about:

"I would be grateful to know whether any papers survive from the period XX-YY in relation to the case of Joseph Hanlon [do you have any other details of this man that might assist in a search] and whether these could be released under FOI."

Come back to me if any of this is unclear or you want more/different assistance.

Phil H

[lynn cates]

left hanging

Hello Phil. Thanks.

Would it be germane to include that it was Hanlon's testimony that hanged Tim Kelly, of Phoenix Park notoriety?

Cheers.
LC

[Phil H]

I might be - but as I have said, be too specific and it narrows their search, so might not produce something that a slightly wider request would.

These are VERY old records don't forget, even if they survive. The officials involved will not be familiar with the files, so will simply use yuor searchg terms in all likelihood. They'll do their best, but this is in addition to their daily work, there are not (at least in my experience) separate FOI teams to do the devilling work.

I'd suggest holding back the "it was Hanlon's testimony that hanged Tim Kelly, of Phoenix Park notoriety" in case they ask for more information. I'd also phrase it, if you use it was "simply "in relation to the Pheonix Park murders of 188?" that avoids the personal data thing again.

Have you check the bibliography/sources used in reputable books on the murders/case to see whether any files are referenced. That can be useful in directing an FOI search. It might also show that those files have been released/are available say in the National Archives at Kew.

If material is already in the public domain they will probably simply direct you to it anyway.

Phil H

[Chris]

Regarding the Special Branch records in MEPO 38 at the National Archives, 176 out of the 182 files now have descriptions and dates on the catalogue. Apart from one item from 1880 on naturalisation (MEPO 38/159) the earliest date appears to be 1916, and that is the only one from before 1920.

In FOI terms, "personal data" can relate only to people who are still living, so that won't be a problem for 19th-century records. The relevant exemptions are Section 30(2) (information from confidential sources obtained for investigations and proceedings conducted by public authorities) and Section 31 (prejudice to law enforcement). More information here:

http://www.ico.gov.uk/for_organisations/guidance_index/freedom_of_information_and_environmental_information.aspx#exemptions

If someone is thinking about making some more requests, I think a useful first step would be to try to clarify the history of the records and what survives. Is it really the case that the only pre-1916 records that survive are the ones described in Clutterbuck's thesis? And if so when were the other pre-1916 records destroyed? It has been said that they were pulped during the Second World War, but personally I find it difficult to believe that Special Branch would have thrown out nearly everything more than about 20 years old at that point. Would an anti-terrorist agency today destroy records from the early-1990s? Surely some of those records would still have been potentially relevant.

[Chris]

In FOI terms, "personal data" can relate only to people who are still living, so that won't be a problem for 19th-century records. The relevant exemptions are Section 30(2) (information from confidential sources obtained for investigations and proceedings conducted by public authorities) and Section 31 (prejudice to law enforcement).

Sorry - actually there is a 100-year limit on the Section 31 exemption, so I think Section 30(2) is the only one relevant to 19th-century Special Branch records.

[lynn cates]

Molony

Hello Phil. Thanks.

I can check Molony. He discovered that Hanlon arrived in Australia, but was recognised there.

I get the feeling that Phoenix Park is still a delicate issue in UK/Irish relations.

Cheers.
LC

[Phil H]

I get the feeling that Phoenix Park is still a delicate issue in UK/Irish relations.

And that might still be a justification for an exemption in the public interest. I think the SB Registers were a similar worry for the authorities, once they realised what they were!!

Good luck.

Phil H

[Phil Carter]

How's this for a specific question, "Do you have information regarding HM government's secret resettlement program? In particular, what name did Joseph Hanlon eventually go by?"

In my view this is both too vague and too specific/persoanl data related.

How about for the first question: "I am interested in any surviving information on HM government's secret resettlement programme for [insert kind of people] in the years 18XX- 18YY. can you please inform me whether any papers are still held, and if possible provide me with copies. Should this request be too wide or onerous i would be happy to provide more specific research criteria."

Second:

I believe that officials might be concerned about requests relating to a specific individual - this could be perceived as potentially putting his descendents at risk - as release of the information might give clear clues to their identity.

How about:

"I would be grateful to know whether any papers survive from the period XX-YY in relation to the case of Joseph Hanlon [do you have any other details of this man that might assist in a search] and whether these could be released under FOI."

Come back to me if any of this is unclear or you want more/different assistance.

Phil H

Hello Phil H,

I have highlighted the last line in your post.

Can I ask a somewhat naughty question?

With your knowledge and depth of experience.. is there anything to stop you writing an FOI application re Special Branch material, for example? Or are you as a retired Civil Servant still "too near"? No offence, I assure you!

best wishes

Phil

[Phil H]

I would be quite happy to assist anyone who wanted to write such an FOI request.

But as release of the registers has been refused after appeal, there is not much hope re those documents, I'm afraid. No point in asking again, leastways yet a while.

If you think there is more that still exists, then start the ball by drafting a request on which I can comment. But I would think that the chances of success would be small. Also beware of anything that sounds like a "fishing expedition".... i.e. casting a net to try to find something that's been overlooked. It'll likely be turned down as too general, or you'll be asked to narrow the search terms.

Also, one legitimate response is "we cannot confirm or deny that such material exists" (used when even knowledge of the existence of information could be sensitive).

Phil H

But take a chance.

Phil H

[Phil Carter]

I would be quite happy to assist anyone who wanted to write such an FOI request.

But as release of the registers has been refused after appeal, there is not much hope re those documents, I'm afraid. No point in asking again, leastways yet a while.

If you think there is more that still exists, then start the ball by drafting a request on which I can comment. But I would think that the chances of success would be small. Also beware of anything that sounds like a "fishing expedition".... i.e. casting a net to try to find something that's been overlooked. It'll likely be turned down as too general, or you'll be asked to narrow the search terms.

Also, one legitimate response is "we cannot confirm or deny that such material exists" (used when even knowledge of the existence of information could be sensitive).

Phil H

But take a chance.

Phil H

Hello Phil,

Many thanks..appreciated.

What I actually meant (but accept the answer anyway) was whether you yourself had considered writing an FOI application of your own, or whether you felt that your name would still be considered "inside" the system or nay..or if indeed you are allowed at all?

Anyroadup..I will consider something for you and send you my email addie in due course.

Again, most appreciated.

best wishes

Phil